Officine Panerai

does anybody know just approx. how many 3646s and 6152/4s were produced?

thanks!

 

I strongly believe that between the references delivered to the Italian Navy, not more than 300 watches.

 

Cheers,

Asi

so in total of 300, how many are 3646 and 6152? not exact numbers but approx. figures..=)

what i am would like to know is which is the rarer of the two models?

thanks again!

perhaps the 6152 is the rarest followed by the 6154 and 2/56.

There are more 3646s or 6152/1s then all of the above combined.

Of the 3646s delivered to the Italians and Germans, many were destroyed, ruined by water or lost at sea. Precise numbers are impossible to determine. Until someone shows delivery notes from Panerai to the Regia  Marina or from 1946 to the Marina Militare, we are holding opinions.

 

Cheers,

Asi

6154 are the rarest.

But it's very difficult to know, as Panerai didn't keep the Archives about the production of watches of this Era.

Asi has some excellent connections, another guy, Y.O, also.

Discussing with them both during these long winter nights, I'd say more than 300, for these 3 references, but very difficult to say.

What is frightening is than much more than 300 exist...

so the question of the authenticity of many of them is pending...

Best.

Nicolas

hi nicolas,

thank again!!!

so more than 300 are out there but pending on their autheticity?  very interesting indeed...=)

so what should one be looking at when determining to pull the trigger or not (i mean any definite characteristics)?

thanks

Shows 600? 3646's + special edition for German Navy perhaps 100-150 units.

 

Anyone thoughts on these numbers?

 

 

 

 

Best

I am holding mine, 300. This is based from discussions with people from the MM and applying some logic too (like reviewing serial numbers).

Some people would like to say there are more, for obvious reasons. Nuff said.

 

Cheers.

 

Asi

And you said it perfectly!

I agree more on your estimation, my friend...

Best.

Nicolas

That looks like a very detailed chart, and i'v been trying to find it on the club panerai homepage, but to no avail.

Do you think you could either send me the link to the exact page that houses this chart, or tell me where on the website is this chart located?

Thanks!

Stephen

hi everyone.=)

can anyone enlighten me on the reference number of the PAM in page 19 of the 2008 catalogue? it's a destro luminor case, with device protecting the crown, with "radiomir" written on the dial. i've been trying to google it but can't find it. it appears to be a 1940 watch.

thanks!

and it's from the 1950's. It is one of 3 known Panerai 'destro' vintage models, the other two being the famous 'Marina Militare' dial one purchased by Panerai Museum in 2005, and the third is again the same reference but without a crown-guard.

 

Here is a pic of the one in the Panerai Museum:

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Asi

This message has been edited by Asimut on 2008-11-30 00:52:29

hi asi,

few more questions of the vintage topic...=)

so only radium is used in the radiomir dials and tritium used in the luminors, correct?

most importantly, is it a health hazard to wear these radioactive watches?

what about the cali dials then?  what kind of luminous material is used for it?

many thanks!

+/- 600 3646 where made, and I think the made them in 2 or 3 different batches.

The first badge has the number beginning with 10094** (that is from end of 1939/1940  and ended whit 10095** 

The radiomir I own has a 10095** number , it is from 1940, it has a Prototype dial. 

Than you see a lot of 3646 whit 1010*** number, that is from 1941,

And a lot of watches with 260*** til 3175** numbers these are from 1943/1944.

 

Than the 6152/1 ( first made in the 50's ), with the big brevet crown, (some of them have the crown protection bridge that is made by Panerai, not Rolex) 

Rolex has patent  this crown in 09/07/1952 The trip-lock patent.

 I think that was the Time the made the first  6152/6154 and also the Rolex 6200 (it has the same crown)

 

The 6152/1 Rolex made them in one badge.

The lowest number I have seen on a 6152/1 is 12455* (I own this watch but i sold it last year to fund my 3646 pint dial  It was a 6152/1 with a Rolex Brevet crown  and a Radiomir dial whit Marina Militare one the dial.

And the latest 6152/1 I have seen has number124960 (it is in the book Orologi militari from cronomania).

So 124960-12455*=+/- 410  pieces of the Rolex Panerai 6152/1

And than you have the 6152 flat case (I think this is the rarest of the vintage panerai, I have only see 1).

The 6154 +/- 30 pieces .

The GPF 2/56  +/- 50 pieces

And than you have the prototypes, Like the Mare Nostrum, Left handed 6152/1 and a handful of 3646 white prototype dials. 

I think there are alot more than 300 Panerai's made  by Rolex between  1937 til 1955

 

Radium or Tritium.

Al Radiomirs has Radium in the dial also the cali dial is with Radium.

The 6152 and 6154 has Radium in the dial.

The 6152/1, you see them white Radiomir on the dial (stands for Radium) and whit Luminor on the Dial.

The Luminor has Tritium or a mix of Radium an Tritium in the dial.

 

Cheers,

Bas.nl

 

. 

 

 

i was wondering.. isn't it that the Cali dial on the 3646 made by Rolex? if so, could it have been superluminova that was used? newbie here, sorry.=P

Navy (not counting the prototypes and Egyptian models).

 

Best regards to FF.

 

Asi

 

I have heard that the Italian army have worked with these watches til the 1980.

So from the 30's til the 80's  is 50 years they work whit Panerai watches,  and than is a batch of 600 or 700 watches not so much .

As you say a lot of them where destroyed or lost, so they get a new one.

 I also think that some watches that are in the market are made of spare parts, they look to new

And as you look at the watch market there are a lot of them, every big watch action  you see one or two vintage Panerai's (christie's, Sohteby's, Antiquorum).

Look ad vintage watch dealers, I no a lot of them.

And a lot of them have  a vintage Panerai's on stock, or sold one in the last 6 months

In the shop where I work we have 5 on stock.

Cheers,

Bas.nl

 

According to past researches, between 3646 & 6152's (excluding prototypes)  the Marina Military purchased approx. 160-180 pieces.  It is known that some 80 pieces were sunk at large of 'La Spezia ' in a concrete block, this because of radioactivity issues. (if you are thinking about it, know that those waters are guarded...LOL)

In 1943 some of the watches in stock at Panerai were requisitioned by the Germans (although they had been paid by the Marina Militare).  Earlier, the Germans were given some of the 3646 as experiments 2-3 units.  It is assumed that post-1943, the German Army managed to acquire some supply directly from Rolex thus explaining 'California' and 'No-Name' Dialed pieces.

It also known that in the 1950's some odd version of the 3646 were obtained directly from 'Orologeria Svizzera' which was then the Panerai family civilian business of watches. I am not too sure how many, but seems it was around 5-10 pieces of the 3646 model case.

It is my opinion that the above number could not be increased/speculated by more than 5% either way.

That's exactly what I expceted from you...It reminds me our long and passionate discussions on this topic.

I totally agree with you, there are more watches on the market than Frogmen at war...

A Paradox?

Not at all.

We are only the keeprs of these watches from the next generation...LMAO

What I didn't get is that not only Humans, but also watches reproduce themselves!

Just kidding, of course.

But this paradox always frightened me, and that's why I always passed on Panerai Vintage Watches.

Except if you buy the seller...

Best, my good friend!

Nicolas

hi nicolas,

after reading all the comments, i can truly understand why you choose not to have any vintage pams in your collection...

a purchase of vintage pam without proper knowledge can indeed turn out to be a very costly lesson...

 

As some Vintage are made from authentic spare parts...

If you really want one, the golden rule is vital: " Buy The Seller ".

Best!

Nicolas

A very good friend of mine, 'AB', recently was offered a Vintage piece; he did not know what to think of it… to help trace the origin which was claimed to be in the family for over 25 years, he simply asked... I only need to see one photo of any member of the family wearing this piece... any picture taken at sporting event, wedding, birth, death, school whichever ... just any picture... My friend is very knowledgeable on the subject... but he respectfully earned his money and he is no foul to part with it just to be the famous and trendiest guy wearing a 'garage' watch!

So in short... buy the seller, the origin and use knowledge (if you have no much knowledge, don't be afraid to ask a few knowledgeable guys!)
Otherwise just send me the money I can do plenty with it ;-)

I forgot to say, there were no picture ever forwarded or handed to him... and he kept his cash!

This is not the Golden Rule, this is the Platinum Rule! LOL

Didn't know that Mr A.B was one of your good friends...

Now, I understand...LOL

Best!

Nicolas