Blancpain

The latest edition of the Blancpain magazine arrived a while back and along with the article on the new Fifty Fathoms I was interested to read the article on the 1185 chronograph movement.

I was amazed to learn that several un named top Swiss manufacturers have evidently copied the design of this movement including it's vertical clutch. Apparently this replication is so exact  and extensive that major parts from them are actually interchangeable with the original!.

Immitation is the most sincere form of flattery or so the saying goes, but I am now curious to know who the culprits are. For instance do they include the new "in house" calibre for the Rolex Daytona as hinted at elsewhere?

  

And as with all marketing literature, take it with a grain of salt.

_john

that the JLC 75x family of chronograph movements was directly "inspired" by the 1185 (i.e. JLC copied aspects of the movement without BP's approval?)

Hi Moses,

I think most agree that the JLC movement draws heavily from the 1185, but the general tone of the article regarding the influence of the 1185 on all more recent vertical clutch designs was pretty over-the-top IMHO.  The 1185 borrowed ideas at least as significantly from the Seiko chronograph movements as many of the more recent designs did from the 1185, and many of the "improvements" claimed to have been made over the Seiko desgns are simple incorrect or are at least misunderstandings of the technical aspects.

Let's just say I found the tone of the article to be a little too zealous with too little regard for the facts, understandable for a company magazine on some level, but disappointing nonetheless.  I can't wait 'til Jeff reads this.

_john

It is true that there are a couple of movements on the market that are similar in design to the Blancpain 1185.  One is the Omega 33XX series of chronograph movements.  Those are made by F. Piquet, just like the Blancpain 1185, but there are several notable differences.  Both are column-wheel chronos with clutch engagement, but the Omega is larger, thicker, and has a larger balance wheel.  It also has a beat rate of 4 Hz, I believe the Blancpain is 3 Hz.  Also, the Omega has a different register layout, with the small seconds at 9 instead of 6 as on the Blancpain, and a free sprung balance (not sure if the Blancpain has that). 

A closer cousin might be the new Jaeger-LeCoultre chronographs.  They have the same register layout, etc as the Blancpains.  But, those watches do have a longer power reserve (65-72 hours) which might indicate double barrels.  Jaeger is also well known for its own proprietary automatic winding system. 

There might be others on the market that I don't know about.  Rolex has their own design, but I don't know much about it.  And keep in mind, the Blancpain is certainly not the first clutch operated chronograph.  In the late 60s or early 70s Seiko sold a clutch operated column-wheel chronograph.  Besides, similarities in technology are common in any field, most all watches have anchor escapements, just like almost any car has a piston engine.  The Blancpains are beautiful, no doubt, but lots of companies use that same technology, both before and after  the 1185.

Mike

I just read that piece myself a couple of nights ago. As an aside, I continue to be amazed by the breadth and depth of Mr. Kingston's knowledge.

The article was certainly interesting and pulled no punches.

The other part of the mysterious behind the scenes goings on that I find intriguing is that certain "manufacture" houses also supply their movements to other brands, some of  them very prestigious names indeed.

I'm refering to the part of the market where the customer isn't only buying a watch, he is also buying into the Brands heritage and reputation. For example I would not be happy to learn that my BP had a movement supplied by another company. But I am led to believe that this happens at some very exclusive houses. 

Hi Jerryuk,

All of the "Big Three" brands (PP, AP, VC) use some movements supplied by other manufacturers.  That in itself is not terribly scandalous and quite thoroughly disected and documented on the various watch discussion forums.  Whether or not it is an issue in general or in the specifics is largely a question of personal preference and priorities.  The practice of purchasing movements from specialist manufacturers is so old and well established in the Swiss watch industry (dating back literally to the very beginning) that one is tempted to call it the traditional way that things are done.

Some of the folks that find it distasteful when brands use movements that are not 100% their own may also fault Blancpain for using Piguet movements.  Piguet also manufactures movement for other brands and many of the Blancpain movements are not proprietary or exclusive (see the thread above about the 1185 and which other brands use it).  Blancpain fans will generally counter with the fact that since Blancpain's resurrection in the early '80s they have worked very closely with Piguet and been either partly or wholly owned by the same persons/organizations as well.  so much so that Piguet could be considered the manufacturing arm of Blancpain.  Whether this argument holds water with you or is even important at all is of course also a matter of personal preference and priorities.

_john

as long as it's done openly and without misrepresentation.

 At least he used to talk a lot before he moved to Hublot! I agree that so long as no "slight of hand" is part of the deal, what can we criticize!

Yes, Lettres du Brassus is the Blancpain magazine.  However, the statements about copying and imitation in the article are factual.  I have personally laid transparencies of a rival brand's chronograph over the design of the 1185.  It matched--as the article said "part for part" in the critical areas.  This was not a case of close similarity--it was a case of striking similarity.  As a copyright lawyer, drawing on 30 years of intellectual property law experience, I can say that  the law would draw a firm presumption of copying with similarity this striking.  Other brands have also admitted to careful study of the Blancpain design.

In the other case mentioned, involving the split second isolator, the brand's technical director admitted that he was "inspired" by the Blancpain design.  The words are his not mine.

 

Jeff