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WatchProSite|Market|Digest

Richard Mille

14 Comments view entire thread 
Comments:

RM as the "new" FM

 
 By: rakis73 : July 22nd, 2012-11:30
Hey guys - I read something in one of the postings on the forum and it had me thinking - I had eventually picked up the APs I wanted over a period of 10 years. It was a long journey to get my first and I relish the fact that when I finally got it, I did off my own hard work. I enjoyed making that first purchase because it was truly significant for me. Then I picked up a second and third and each symbolised an event of significance that I valued.

Over the past year, I had been getting increasingly curiously about RM and I have to admit, the fascination grew due to the influence of a specific person and I have now come to aspire to eventually pick up the one I want the most.

Today, I came across an interesting comment and it raised something I had not really thought of - the comment (paraphrasing it) is that "Richard Mille is the new Frank Muller" - the context of this is in relation to the value (actual and perceived) and how the perception may be eroded over a period of time and also due to waning interests.

Now, I had never really considered the watches I have from that perspective - I bought the ones I liked the most and meant something to me. However, if I step back, I would still not be horrified by the fact that these watches had literally depreciated in monetary value over a period of time.

I do of course accept that there are few assets that actually can appreciate the way some sought after watches tend to.

So, I am curious whether the members here, upon taking a step back, have ever looked at a watch and said "ok, i paid USD$x for this watch and even though I did, at least I know that the watch has not depreciated in an "open-market" value by 45% because the public's interest is now gone".

As mentioned before, I do not own any of the watches because I thought they would be "investment" pieces because I simply do not think in those terms. 

But (perhaps wrongfully for some) I have taken the perspective that the watches are just a store of value for me i.e. if I had paid USD$8 for a watch, I know that even in 5 years time, the watch would ever only be worth USD$6 - not any much more or less.

So back to the title - what is the view here for RMs - will they eventually go the same way as FM i.e. the interest has eroded and subsequently the "store of value" perception is completely misplaced?

P.S> Just for the record, I am still a few years way off from picking up the RM I really like so this is not a pitch for advice for the sake on any impending purchase but just a muse over how perhaps I may succumb to a perceived fad (in the eyes of some commentators) and then regret my weakness.

Cheers!

i never buy my RMs from ADs and thus never pay retail price

 
 By: Mohannad (aka Riddler) : July 22nd, 2012-13:36
Sorry to do this but on PuristsPro we dont discuss price or discounts. If you want to discuss price or discounts then private email. If you wish to discuss RM as the new FM, from a brand perspective, go right ahead.

Thanks

Andrew H This message has been edited by 219 on 2012-07-23 07:33:54

That was my post that you refer to!!

 
 By: nautilus : July 23rd, 2012-05:50

To be clear I was only repeating what my dealer said to me when I said I wanted to buy one, but in addition to value he was also referring to the shape / design of the watch and also the fact that there is currently momentum behind the brand but little history to back up the hype. Don't you find it interesting though that my dealer was not the only dealer to express this view to a client about RM?

I was having this conversation with the dealer as I wanted a RM 11 and I have bought every watch and all my wifes jewelery from him and I was asking if he would start selling RM, I still really want this watch. I am hopeful that one day soon he will decide to stock the brand as he knows I will buy one from him.

Yes you are!

 
 By: rakis73 : July 23rd, 2012-09:19
Yes indeed - hope you don't mind that I wrote this out as you did inspire this! And I am also considering the RM11.

I narrowed my thoughts to just the issue of value retention for what it is worth - I did overlook the comparison to FM and although I never owned any FMs in the past I do not believe that I would necessarily look out for it either.

A very well-respected dealer of APs once told me that even though he maintains an amazing catalogue of APs, he still ranked FM above AP - I still picked up all the APs I have wanted so far and only RM has really got me interested in straying from my fixation on AP so far (and also one of the PPs).


It's the same for me

 
 By: nautilus : July 23rd, 2012-10:37

Next for me I think will be either: RM 11, PP 5980 or ALS Datograph.

OVER PRICED

 
 By: steventarmac : July 23rd, 2012-12:01
HAD THREE RM,S 005, 010,, 028  NONE KEPT TIME ,,LOST 20 SEC A DAY ,,DUST INSIDE EVERY CASE ,,YOUR RIGHT OVER PRICED JUST LIKE FM,S

brand loyalty

 
 By: neogeo : July 24th, 2012-02:04

Incredible. Steventarmac must really like RM, otherwise he wouldn’t have bought 3 of them. Talk about brand loyalty.

Yes, definitely overpriced, but that's part of what makes them so exclusive. If everyone could have one, we wouldn’t want an RM, we’d be content with a Rolex instead.

The question was are rm,s overpriced,,, not like or dislike [nt]

 
 By: steventarmac : July 24th, 2012-09:08

brand loyalty its a watch not my wife

This message has been edited by steventarmac on 2012-07-24 09:16:23

RM vs FM

 
 By: gasterus : July 24th, 2012-08:28
You must have liked RMs to previously owned 3 pieces. Sorry to hear you have issues with them. Mine has been working fine from the moment i bought it 3 years ago. From my point of view RM is different to FM. First, it is targeted to a different level of customer. RM's idelology in utilising the latest material technology and combine it with a true horology. Its an extreme watch, thus leading to the premium price tag. The value of the watch varies from each individual if 
the price is justifiable for a watch using advance engineered materials and latest technology. I would not category RM watches as high value, but in my opinion it is worth the penny for its technology and exclusivity. On the other hand, i'm not sure what is the image or message FM is trying to convey through their brand? Maybe people get bored of their design, thus the decline in resale value. Just my 2 cents.

The question was: RM the new FM? Not about being priced one way or another. You

 
 By: 219 : July 24th, 2012-10:53

obviously like the designs and the watches.  To own three suggests you do.  That you had such a bad run of luck with your watches is regretable.  What I dont understand is why you did not visit your local AD and chew his/her head off about it and get something changed to your satisfaction.  Richard is very concerned that after sales service is up to scratch and a run of three in row, I am sure that the AD and RM would have made sure that you were dealt with to your satisfaction.

Thanks

Andrew H

I have also heard this same statement from a dealer.... [nt]

 
 By: mrmar23 : July 25th, 2012-16:58
No message body

RM can't be the the FM

 
 By: mams : July 23rd, 2012-23:38

I would say that Richard Mille watches are exceptional and produced to a very limited number per year.. it will never reach to the point of being compared to FM.. actually i would say that with the finishing and the details put in RM watches, no other watches can be compared.. they stand out, and they might be over priced... so is a bugati car or a lamborghini... if you want to b different from everyone else and want a watch with a strong character... then RM is the watch..

 

I believe that the brand is not here for a short time... it's here to stay and Im sure Mr. RM himself will make sure of that.. I have RM10, RM11 and RM16.. and I love them all.. my next is the RM35.

 

It's as RM said.... "a racing machine on the wrist".. it's a piece of art, it's something different.. it's following the "know how" of watch making but in a modern way, with modern technology and new materials obviosuly after rigorous tests...

 

So just coming to an end.. RM is and will always stay RM smile

 

Thanks,

MAMS

Not about "overpriced"

 
 By: rakis73 : July 24th, 2012-09:41
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences.

I was quite careful in how I raised this and I tried not to dabble on the issue of price but rather on the issue of retained value/perceived value as dictated by the free market.

In a hazardous comparison, perhaps a recent contender would be Panerai as a brand - there are so many variations of styles and prices have fluctuated in various forms especially between 2003 to 2009. As a company, they have reintroduced a number of designs and case sizes to appeal to old and new followers - whether these "retain" a certain value ultimately depends on the wearer's requirements. I have two PAMs which I like very much and would never be bothered if the prices go south as I derive satisfaction from ownership. Similar to the APs but again as the gulf between the RRP and "after-market" valuation has not been necessarily bleak, I do not feel that my purchases have depreciated much even though the market may say differently.

However, with the enthusiasm for RM at the moment, I am indeed curious whether longevity would have the opportunity to retain a captive audience hence ensuring a stable perception of value.

I am a strog believer that in a parallel sense, the true value of a watch would be what it means to you - however reality would probably price it differently and there is an ascertainble value across secondary markets that gives you a sense of what the priced value actually is.

Hope I am making sense but this is just my 2 cents.

Cheers.

RM is certainly not the new FM.... there is a world of difference

 
 By: 219 : July 24th, 2012-11:02

between someone who basically copies old watch (mainly Patek) designs, uses and adapts off the shelf movements, and does little in the way of new material/new use research that pushes the boundaries of micro-mechanicals and material science.

Richard's watches are originals.  True, there is a difference between the watches that use the Vaucher movements and the ones that are designed fro scratch at R&P, but then that is reflected in the price point.  Apart from the watch case shape (tonneau) favoured by both, the similarities stop there. 

There are a host of other factors I could potentially include, but will not do so as it will get me close to liable, but Richard's design and engineering mantra were revolutionary at the time.  He certainly did not start out using 'off the shelf movements' and dial designs from yesteryear. 

The price point you wish to entertain for a watch is a personal concern for the individual.  Some find the watches overpriced; some just have to have one.  But Richard's watches were and are originals and particular to his design and view of a watch.

Andrew H

even Vaucher movements are actually great

 
 By: Mohannad (aka Riddler) : July 25th, 2012-12:14
personally i think they are one of the best non complicated movements out there 
I've owned 3 Rm10s and all have performed outstandingly
of course my previous RM004 was the best and definitely not comparable to the basics but still the 10s i truly think are one of the best looking and performing basic watches in the market