Richard Mille

so RM wins regardless, these people and media bear in mind have no idea about the costs of watches so as they say talk is cheap  just MO

This brings back my previous post. The question is:

Does Rafael Nadal really needs to know what time it is when he plays 3 - 4 hours tennis match, or better does he need to know the time with tourbillon precision or:

Does Felipe Massa driving his Ferrari at 280 km per hour between Monaco deadly walls need to know his exact lap time by blinking quickly at his watch?

So, was this Nadal tourbillon watch just excellent marketing to bring more rich people to the brand? So they can have another toy   ?

Carl

We chose to, and if it is the thing that excites us, then we chose a point on the price/interest frontier where we wish to be.

Any point paying more than $10k for a car?

Andrew H

...of utter extravagance about it. Maybe it's the prices or marketing ploys. I'm no expert in exotic materials or watch design to say much but I do like its concept and looks. $500K for a watch is quite vulgar but considering there are people who spend up to $100K a day to maintain a yacht, this is literally a drop in the ocean! Back here on Earth, my friends think I can buy a lot 'more' watch for the price of a RM010 but in this case, I'll have to say 'less is more'.

We are fortunate in that we can chose where to spend our money.  For some its wine: you drink it and its gone (pissed away!); for some it is art, but then anyone can paint like Pollock - right?  For others, it is yachts, cars, hardcore drugs, you name it, it probably has market for it somewhere.

There is a naivety in the comment that the watch does not cost much to produce.  They look at the object, its a watch (hands, movement, bits of metal and carbon) and they forget where on the technology frontier they are, where on the research, design, and development frontier they are, and see only something strapped to the players wrist. 

It was always Richard's intensions that is he was producing the market's top (robust) tourbillon, he better have some markers he could point to rather than idle claims.  He strapped his first experimental tourbillon on the wrist of a young driver from Brazil (the RM006) to see what would happen in action, in the cockpit of the car.  ( richardmille.watchprosite.com =). Does Massa need that watch to tell the time - no.  Does Richard use the experience of Massa in wearing that watch, how it is on the wrist during reaction time, what happens during the g-force and sudden acceleration and decleration or the car, yes.  The same for Nadal - you can test the watch for hours in the lab, but you can never mimic the experience of what happens in the chosen arena.  It only needs a moment to learn something new about the materials/movement.  Sure there is sponsorship involved - Nadal playing is a global event - but there also choice on Richard's part about who and why he designs a watch.  He is always learning, pushing forward.  The RM006 lead to the development of the RM009.  Right now, I dont know where he will go after the RM027 - but he will.

I think John McEnroe was one of the most brilliant tennis players ever - his titanic matches with Borg in the late 70's are the stuff of my childhood memories.  Even now, with the rose coloured spectacles of hindsight, the matches were more a fight to the death, or a philosophy on life, than just a tennis match.  But would I pay $5 for a McEnroe painting (yes - he has moved into art) - no thanks!  Works both ways.  Some collectors pay 6 figure sums for a McEnroe.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and ignorance is bliss.....

Andrew H

Well said.

I think it's all about respect, respect to the people developing, creating, thinking, drawing, designing, making, and the rest of people involved in the creation of "something". (That's why I don't like fakes). It's just a lack of respect.

I guess, Mc Enroe's comments are, as you say, about the materials used to make the watch, and from ignorance. I would not worry about them. The final customer won't.

Bravo for RM and Rafa. (specially him)

Vte

...Whats the value of an RM009 or an RM0012?....many very wealthy people may decide to buy an RM27 because they like it & are fascinated by it, but also lets be aware they maybe also have one eye on a possible investment with doing such a thing.

Who knows longterm the value of such a ltd edition/cutting edge piece?.

I am quite happy that I spent a few pounds on an RM002/004 etc and that I love the watches and enjoy looking at & wearing them, and indeed owning them. I am also very aware of the value & I am hoping over the years they will not decrease drastically in value, but indeed may increase...money wrapped up in such items certainly seems a better investment than the current money market/share portfolio anyway!..mine has halfed over the last two years...and its more fun!

I also have a few Old guitars & rockstars famous guitars tucked away that again I enjoy owning but also do have one eye on the future, that come my retiremnt, hopefully they will return far more than I paid..who knows, could bomb the other way, thats investment thats risk, hopefully a good spread of money in various items yields a good return one day

The Value of the 27 is not in how much it has cost to make, but how much it will be worth in a few years, Im sure everybody knows the silly prices some older pieces from various brands can fetch at auction....so maybe those that have the money and buy such items and indeed can afford to hold onto them for the longterm could end up owning something that may increase in value, so they most definatley have not squandered $500k.

Now where is my cyrstal ball?.....

Rich tasteless peoples toys?/vulgar?...get over it, utter rubbish, smacks of jealousy, you have a shed of money, then spend it how you like...who is it that can pass judgemenent on another in such a way?...does the shanty town dweller think that someone having a fillet steak has so much money they are vulgar?...does the middle class executive find the chap with a mansion & ferrari vulgar?...does he then find an arab shiek vulgar....where does the comparision end?....certainly the word vulgar in the case of the price of the 27 I find a little offensive.

Great watch, great price tag...lets come back in 10 years and discuss the value of the piece then

 

There are things that required much more effort to design and manufacture than a watch, and yet those things are relatively inexpensive. Some of the most advanced computer chips come to mind. When you consider how utterly complicated they are and how many people worked on them for collectively many man years, it's amazing that they are sold for only a few hundred dollars. All this is possible because of mass production. Without mass production, complicated things become very expensive.

With only 20 RM027s to be built, it's conceivable that even with a $500K price tag, the other 19 (not counting Nadal's watch) would fetch only $9.5 Million which might not cover the cost of design, manufacture, marketing, and sales through ADs.

But, what if millions of people demanded a RM027, and that Richard Mille thought there should be millions of RM027s (a big assumption). It would certainly cost much more money than has been spent already on the design so far, but manufacturing processes could be built to automate the manufacture and assembly of all the parts. Even if the cost of such further development were 100 times as much as has been spent and thus totaled $950 Million, then if 300 Million customers all over the world wanted a RM027, the total cost of development amortized over all customers would be about $3. Even if the raw materials cost $100, and it cost another $100 for the automated system to manufacture it (there are maintenance and labor costs here), then the total production costs per watch would be $203. Then, even if there was over 100% markup before it got to the consumer, it could still be sold at WalMart for under $500, and that would even cover the cost of paying Nadal for his picture on the packaging.

But, the market for RM027 is not 300 Million, and only 20 will be made, so it costs $500K instead of $500.

So, what is the RM027 worth? Since there isn't a market for 300 Million RM027s and since Richard Mille has declared there will only be 20, the RM027 is worth closer to the $500K figure. In fact, it's possible, given its exclusiveness that it may be worth many millions in the future, and ultimately the worth of something is determined by what people are willing to pay and not by any imagined cost of making it.
Eric von Schonberg

So therefore a 27 could actually be a reasonable investment at $500k.

Looking at another thread I understand that Marcus in London is getting one & its presold, if this is the case with the other 19, then It makes a total mockery of all the criticism fired at the watch's price tag...as you correctly state the worth of an item is not what it cost to make, but is the value the market dictates through supply & demand.

As I said above if indeed most or even all these have been presold then maybe its undervalued!!

there are 50 to be made.  Some the of exotic alloys involved are both difficult to manufacture and difficult to further manufacture into watch parts.  It is far from straightforward.  Even now, I know that Richard Mille is trying different carbon fibre compounds to see which gives the optimal structural rigidity and lightness to the case. 

Thanks for the contribution.  I might also add that I am fairly certain that all, or nearly all, of the RM027's are spoken for.  Sorry to disappoint - although ask your local dealer!

Andrew H

in all those econ classes.  All very good points, I think it all comes down to the value is in the eye of the beholder.  99% of the people I talk about watches with roll their eyes and say they "just don't get it"  I don't take offence it is ignorance, not in a bad way it just is. Exactly how I was no more than 3 or 4 years ago. 

I was  a little shocked when I first saw the RM011 in Robb Report and then looked up th price.  It intrigued me more to find out, why?  Why are these pieces so much? (relative to other watches)  Maybe the negative press will intrigue others to find out why and in doing so who knows, they may be an IWS in no time!  I agree negative press is good press, any press is.  A serious watch collector gets it.  RM's point was not to try and get the person who knows nothing or little about watches to go out and spend that kind of money, the (advertising) market is extremely limited to buyers who can and will spend that kind of money, but the good news is, so is the watch production.  Great topic- Ben