Horological Meandering

I was quited surprised to read a post on this forum which issues such kind of criticism regarding the watch business. From my point of view this criticism seems very biased. There may well be an incredible amount of new money waiting to be earned by horological artists, who perfectly understand the watch business of today and whos creations are perfectly designed to fit the demands of the new markets. But I am sure there is still enough money left for traditional watch manufacturers ruled by traditional mindsets and producing traditional watches. Just let each of these parties do their business.

Best regards, Heinrich

As I mentioned previously in another thread.

China accounts for nearly a third of Swiss watch exports, and China + Singapore accounts for almost 40% (Source: Financial Times, March 19 2010).

I do agree with Bernard that if there are still people in the watch industry to think that the majority of their sales come from "old money", they need to have a little talk with their Trade Minister.

There's no denial that the "old money" is still there, but the market have definitely developed beyond that in the last couple of decades. Surely some of them might be content with just the "old money" clients, but these businesses in time will miss out on potential growth, and will lose out to the others that are strategically more adaptive. Let natural selection go to work.

of course, I do not expect all to share one view. Especially views coming from my quarter which is not a majority segment.

Nonetheless...taking a point from "Plato's Repbulic" 380BC...beauty and ugliness are one because they are two.

In Socrates argument for the guards, I am one such that will not be eligible for a guard, but one who would pursue knowledge and opinion for the sake of enlightened perception. Bias, I must be...that is a fulcrum upon which I use leverage. However, I intend no brow beating of sorts.

In fact, if one were to approach the brand's higher echelons of executives, you will find NOT this form or any form of discussion, but one of a singular non didactic presentation of a POV..namely theirs.

Having had some personal fun at Artya's expense in recent posts, it's nice to see an attractive "brutal" watch.  The rugged style plus simpliciity (especially the latter) gives it a certain attraction.  But for my taste, that is about the limit in this style.  Once we get into the Titanic, craters, and scattered aliens around the dial, it gets a bit much.  But it's nice to live in a time when we have so many choices. 

Just a morsel to this thread,
in the end if you have Horological education that Bernard does, and the pocket book to back that taste (to quote a 1950s AP ad line "if you have the taste and the means") you can actually act and react to the establishment, and to the snottyness you observe by purchasing watches as the ones you purchased Bernard.
 I.e. think of the Art world as Pplater posted: Through active patronage, it is the patrons who largely shape the art world. So be thankful that you're in this position Bernard to shape the horological world (as I'm sure you are).
Most folks who don't like the stuffyness of some brands (or what they see in contemporary art museums) have no other means to change things than by simply not participating in these markets. I.e. don't aspire to buy 'X' brand watch, and don't patronize the Whitney or whatever contemporary art museum that's by your house.
 In the end, as you know it's a matter of different companies and different consumers interacting and shaping each other- and as your post belies, your rant on the 'stuffy' institutions appears to be more a 'sly' marketing slogan for this new watchmaker. After all, you've gotten our attention and we've all looked at this watch and we're of course eager see more of it!

Thanks for sharing ,
S

but I kind of disagree with your later part about the Artya watch.  A watch like this is what I consider to be a watch that gets lots of talk but will disappear off the face of the planet, such as the infamous "Pet Rock" craze.

It is always interesting to design these unusual watches that people would never have imagined, but there is only so much of a border you can cross IMO.

Congrats on your purchase, and I appreciate the fervor you expressed throughout your post.  This is why we all love you here.  The Artya watch is definitely not my cup of tea, and then again I guess this is why we have the saying "Somebody's garbage is someone else's treasure."

Cheers,
Anthony

people who are not European old money but see European old money as the epitome of class and aspire to partake of its atmosphere and values. While there are certainly other segments of the market, that part is large and has a lot of spending power. It will not stray from what it perceives as European old-money values in watchmaking. While some watch companies cater to other market segments, many continue to design for the preferences of those who are attracted to the perception of stability and aristocracy associated with fine mechanical watches. This makes sound economic sense; in my view, since watches are intrinsically anachronistic and reflect the embrace of obsolete technology, it makes sound aesthetic sense as well.

This classic Buick Streamliner is restored for the 2010 Concours.  Its original construction took over two years, built with an aluminum body around a steel chassis.  Not likely that you’ll never see it on the auction block.   It's not the "Patek" or the top 3 of the car world...then.

It may not fetch the kind of prices of a ltd edition Ferarri GT California from 1963  et al.

But..the point is, if I were alive then, in 1948, and having the wallet for it...this is the AHCI or independant car I would have bought in Singapore, even though we drive on the wrong side.

 

 

Then it also NOT a piece of dino dung...but the world in 1948 had not developed the sense of humor from Dali or Miro yet.

As for my pet point of condesension, I look at Kari and Dufour...they are GREAT. It's that they too make products that represent the same lines as a Vacheron or VC, but they are making them for 20 customers like "me". So is Vianney and so is Laurent Ferrier this year...10 maybe 20 of us...that's understanding their market.

But..making 80,000 to say 7,000 pieces for which the buyers dont unwrap the plastic, only to hock them down the used dealers for a flip...is that "making the world's finest aspirations"?

It can be presented positively, and that is..you may be 80% correct. I do think however, if Vacheron made a watch that looked exactly like a URWERK or a Hautlence, the piece may not be flipped, but worn with some happiness by someone in his 40s. And..who previously did not give a damned about watches.

I brought 2 Swiss guys from basel to see the Rebellion T1000 this Basel. They dont like watches, they feel that the industry is making stuff for Chinese, Mid eastern oil money and Russians....and they never felt like looking at the Basel fair at all. Both are PhD types with a deep love of art and books, old books, and with MUCH persuasion....they went to Basel.

At patek stand, they YAWNED...at the Rolex..they did not look at the displays...at Corum...they liked the ti bridge.

Then I said..hey..lets see the T1000.

Now..they are BOTH saving up, and willing to not buy the new Porsche, to buy a T1000.

SOLD.

They loved the chain. They loved the architecture. I know..they will buy the HM4 as well.

... neither can I come to think of it as revolutionary.

Streamlined cars were common after WW2, When looking for the revolutionary impulse, you should search ten years before:



Best regards,
Marcus

They might have been interesting looking, but they lasted what, 9 years? After making terribly unreliable cars, the company died with most of its inventory unsold. Now, they are admired and super-collectible. Isn't that a good analogy for what Bernard is suggesting regarding new brands?

Those are moving words,and am sure many here await your engaging intellectual posts.Actually,I like the Dino poo version watches,and similarly but sadly, the decline and inaccessibility of JD puts me back on the exotic material dial versions.

Majority watch lovers still die for Patek, Rolex, VC (predominantly pet brand for Chinese from mainland) and ....

You may say they are not sophisticated, shallow, not educated, .................. but they are the recognised market forces that keeping the brands alive.  In fact, these are the market leaders and not the ACHI.  Have we seen enough independents joining/working together with the big brands or entering into joint venture arrangement with each other?  If not, then, we will see more coming.

Bernard, I like to read your post even though I don't agree to all of your point of view.

Regards

Ling

 

 

but in fairness, I have been sceptical of your opinions before but you have frequently been right.

I do agree with your thoughts on the culture of the industry though. Be that as it may, that Artya - all of them in fact - look terrible!

- SJX

For once..no one tried to make a plain ugly watch.

He tried to cut it with a saw..hence the gashes, and used faecal (not in this one) material etc..certainly a very good statement piece.

I don't admire its beauty. I admire its message, although I don't 100% agree with it all.

It's just like the message that was driven to the audience in the movies "Easy Rider" and "The Midnight Cowboy"...and even " a requiem for a Dream". All painful. But relevant.

This watch is not going to make anyone "rich"...but it is a great sacrifice for Arpa and his time...and this time..the message is stronger.

my fabolous rolex leopard watch is ugly? At least it's adorned with magnificent and glorious precious stones along with wondrous movement inside. And most importantly, it ain't got no shit on the dial

cen@maldives (working of course!)