Horological Meandering

Dear fellow watch-enthusiasts!

 

For quite a while I have been browsing this page and been amazed by the fascination that sophisticated mechanical watches seem to exert on a lot of people worldwide.

What I repeatedly asked myself and discussed with a colleague today: If you pay - let´s say 12.000 Euro- a lot of money for an undoutedly exqusitely designed and crafted watch, do you get an equivalent value? How could that be defined? 

Or, to put it a different way: Is another timepiece which "only" costs 6.000 Euro only half as well built, because it has half its worth?

Is there any rational connection between price and inherent value or is this mainly a question of marketing, merchandising, exclusivity, in a way a sort of "brain fake"?

Knowing there are heaps of watch afficionados on this page: this is not to insult anyone, but the sincere question of someone tinkering with the idea of buying just such a watch!

Thanks for sharing your ideas!

 

Anaesdoc

Hello anaesdoc!

Congrats on your first and interesting post!  You raise a very good question.

Value in my opinion is subjective.  How do you put a price tag on happiness/enjoyment/desire with anything(watch, car,etc)?

The Purist philosophy has always been the mindset of appreciating something because you like it.  Doesn't matter if it's expensive or cheap, limited edition/exclusive or mass marketed, etc.. it's all about passion.

I happen to like yellow colored watches but I know others do not.  But I buy these things because they are for me, not for anyone else.  If you happen to like yellow too, great, if not I'm ok with that too.  Value of the pics below: invaluable/priceless! LOL

So what watches are of value to you?  How much do you enjoy them?  What other things that you collect that are valuable to you?  anaesdoc, I'm very interested in your views too. =)

-MW

Hello MW,

 

thanks for your comment.

Of course you are right poiting out that the degree of happiness, excitement and fascination over a "thing" like a watch is subjective. That also is valid for everyday things like flowers, faces, weather etc. One person does like it very much, one does not and it is not always easy to explain where the affinity comes from.

The underlying reason for my question is a substantial uncertainty on the reliability of my subjective view.

Let me tell you the story.

I have been into watches for quite a while (starting as a boy with pocket watches), they had to be mechanical and classical. With limited funds I had a "natural" limitation to my aspirations. With expanding resources (though still fairly small compared to some people around here ) my interest shifted to brands that were unimaginable before.
A couple of months ago I came across the Patek Video "To my son", featuring the Calatrava 5196J, a lovely, classical, yet simple watch in terms of the movement. It was just a watch after my taste, but at a price that the material (yellow gold case) and the movement (simple handwound Patek caliber) alone would hardly justify. So my rational "Me" tells me there can be no point in buying such a watch, whereas the subjective one tells me this is a once in a lifetime thing, I might inherit the watch to my son (like in the advertising) - not knowing whether he would appreciate that -, it is suberly handcrafted, it is exclusive - who else in your aquaintance wears a Patek?
I had spotted the Calatrava earlier, liked it, but the passion came after having seen the video. The watch is beautiful, as I saw when visiting some AD in town, but I cannot get rid of the idea, that I am strongly influenced by a very powerful sales promotion.
You surely know the experience that your passion decreased gradually, once you got what you always longed for?
So that´s my concern.

Regards,

 

Anaesdoc

from which to approach the question you raise. The simple answer is, of course, that the correlation between price and quality is not taut. Watches which cost twice as much as others are not going to be identifiable as "twice as good".

I would use the analogy of audio equipment: there is a tremendous step up in quality from a $1,000 system to a $5,000 system; the two will not be comparable to anyone's ears – even unsophisticated listeners. There will be a noticeable, but smaller step up in quality from $5,000 to $10,000, and smaller yet from $10,000 to $20,000, etc. So, in effect, there is a curve which begins quite sharply, then tapers as the prices escalate.

I'd argue that the same is basically true of watches, though, to get to the heart of your question, at any point along that curve it may be possible to identify watches (or amplifiers, speakers, etc.) which represent good value.

To complicate matters, "value" has different meanings to different people. It could very reasonably be argued that a $300 mechanical watch which keeps very good time represents stupendous value relative to all of the watches which cost far more. Others might argue – as I would – that the best pure value available is found in the vintage market. Many of the best vintage watches are exceptionally well designed and built, and, in stark contrast to the vast majority of contemporary watches, they are also very like to appreciate in value.

Regards,

Tony C.

to this forum.  It is a good question that you've asked.  However, I do not think there is a good answer.

Value as you have suggested is measured through dollars and cents but for any hobby, in this case could be call as an affliction, is more than monetary.  I have asked similar question to myself numerous time and question my rationality whether I should spent hard earned cash on these "play things".  In the end, I can only tell myself that the money that I have is just a number in the bank book.  Until and unless I spent it, it has literally no "value".  So when I weight different watches with widely different price - I would add the emotional factor into the equation.  I would ask, how much I enjoy owning and wearing the watch?  And more critically, would I be a happier person when I have this particular watch over the other one.  I know this is subjective and would get different responses from different people with different priorities in life.

Yes, my thought process is indeed muddle and could be just an excuse to buy things that I do not really need.  But then, one can survive with little and do without these calatrava, AP, Breguet etc., and just a simple quartz watch, or better still rely on the mobile to tell time.  So if the Calatrava is what you like and you do believe it is something that you will pass on to someone you love later and it would mean something to you when doing this - then the Calatrava would have that value.  If, you feel the same with a less expensive watch - then by all means do that.  One thing for sure, the Euro15,000 watch cannot be twice as accurate, its workmanship twice as good (if this is quantifiable) to a Euro7,500 watch.  It is perhaps the reason why I spent many time more the dollar value (over the original price) on servicing a watch my brother gave me - there is something else associated with the watch that makes it "worth" it.

This is just my take of your question.  Do inform us what you do eventually.  Best of luck.

W72

for the friendly welcome and the thoughts on monetary/emotional value.

I think you are perfectly right, that the personal preference, the "love at first (or second) sight" is of pivotal importance, no matter what the price is.
With watches the problem is often the same as with a few other things in life: only too often the really appealing stuff is most expensive. Of course this is very often due to the special attention that is paid to detail and craftmanship!
At least my taste regularly seems to run in this direction. How much I would prefer my inclination to tend towards the reasonably priced items! Funny enough I do not bother that much about cars, housing, clothes or food - but when it comes to watches... the problem begins!

Tomorrow I will get to see the interesting watches in reality. Let´s see whether they start "speaking" to me.

Kind regards,

anaesdoc

I must admit, this question always bother me from time to time.

Being a very young collector and living in this part of the world make every single dollar counts for me. I critically asks myself what am I actually paying for when I purchase a watch.

In my own analysis, I categorize the 'value' into two:

1. Value outside the watch.

2. Value inside the watch.

I will start with the first category. Value outside the watch to me is the 'brand equity'. If there are any 'value' to this, it is not 'in' the watch. It is in the 'market'. In the perception of others. That is why it is 'outside' the watch.

We have to admit, watches, like other luxury items serve as status symbols for many people. Just like cars. If we need a watch to 'upgrade' our status, we must be willing to pay a premium. This is because these watches 'cannot' be sold at a lower price, lest a 'poor' man could afford. The 'price' of this watch must exceed certain 'minimum wages' line to put you in a different class. Although watches of this category should and normally are of 'higher' quality, it isn't always the case. The reason is sometimes we are so 'blinded' by our chase for status, we become less critical of the actual quality of the watch. If the customers are less critical, then watch makers will lax.

Variations to this category includes excessive advertisement and celebrity associations. Even the 'hope' that 'this watch will be a good investment till the next generation' to me is a 'value' that lies outside of the watch.

The second category is the 'intrinsic' value of the watch. The most obvious example is why a gold case watch costs more than a steel one. The more significant is the 'value creation' of the watch. How many manhour and effort has been put into making the 'quality' of the watch. Finishing. Artisan craftmanship. Design. Innovation. Trace the whole production process to know what has been done to the watch. These things stays inside the watch. The best way to test this value is to ask yourself would you still buy this watch at the same price if you remove the 'expensive' brand from the watch (to quote from Dr Bernard Cheong).   

The question is which 'value' do we really value? That is why some say it is subjective.

The fun part about watch buying is that there is no single watch which fulfills only one category (although the independants are close).  Just difference in proportion. And the question of 'reasonable' profit margin. This is even made harder when brands who are conscious of their 'quality' boost up their price even more. It is very challenging but but an enjoyable process.

Our children will inherit what we own. The question is whether I want them to think of me as a 'brand' and 'trend' chaser or a 'status' slave or someone who buys what others think is 'good'. Or someone who searches endlessly for quality, informed and careful. Or someone who just spend too much time thinking about watches  

Pat