Comments:
Pirsig had a lot to say about quality
especially his less famous second book. Reminds me to give it a read again!
Cheers
Giles
My Pleasure, Thomas
His first book - ZATAOMM - was a 'bible' in my late teens / early 20's.
Cheers,
Giles
Cheers,
Giles
:-) Sorry - should have spelled it out. You may well have already read it?
His second book is called 'Lila' from recollection.
It is :)
I have it but it's part of my Eco style anti-library, i.e. the books not yet read 
In A Word...
Yes. A watch, or any manufactured object, can be considered 'douchey'.
I believe the following to be a couple of examples of watches manufactured to be completely douchey:
I cannot be 100% sure what it says about the person who would own this type of item, but these types of items are no doubt created with a certain type of buyer in mind.
What if the owner of a "Steven Tyler" Rolex had it given to him/her as a gift but it sits in a box and they never wear it? Would anyone know this person was in possession of such an over-the-top, douchey timepiece? In this scenario I would conclude the leopard skin and diamond Rolex is douchey, but the owner of it is not.
Cars, on the other hand, are a bit more difficult to conceal. A "douche-mobile" is defined as "Any vehicle created strictly to fulfill the purposes of being the fastest, look the coolest, have the most bling, be the loudest and most furious and/or the most expensive".
If the neighbor had rolled out of his garage in a 350 or 400GT, it'd painful for us to watch as he drove confidently over all of our tongues. But when he rolls down the street in a bright orange Huracan, a car that not only screams from the horsepower, but also screams "LOOK AT ME", it's douchey. Does that make my neighbor a Douche Bag? Not in the slightest. In fact, just because someone buys something douchey, doesn't necessarily make them a douche. My neighbor happens to be a great guy, an amazing husband and father to two great kids. Over the years we have traveled together, coached little league together, partied together, been to graduations together, you get the picture. Knowing him the way I do I can say without equivocation he is a stand up guy of immense character. But... did he go out and do a total douche bag thing and buy a total douche mobile? No question about it. And he'd be the first one to admit it.
I don't think any one of us Purists would question the quality of a Rolex, whether or not someone wants to own one is a separate matter. Not all Rolexes are created equally, and the same is true for Patek Philippe. I have my own feelings about the Prius and the people who drive them, but that's because I live in L.A. and Prius owners are crazy making BMW is a brand with supreme heritage and except for their lower end models make a very decent product. I sure like that bling M4 - it's a bomb. Does that make me a douche?
BMW is a brand with supreme heritage and except for their lower end models make a very decent product. I sure like that bling M4 - it's a bomb. Does that make me a douche?Cheers!
- Scott
As I digest your comments, a few thoughts / questions:
Hi, Scott,
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, in this thread.
As I digest your comments, may I ask for a clarification(s)?
What does "douchey" mean, as you are using it? To me it is a very derogatory, almost offensive, term, like "cunt" or "slut" used to be when used to refer to women. Interestingly "slut" aint what it used to be and "bitch" though it still isnt yet a compliment, has lost much of its pejorative meaning. Maybe to you "douchey" is the same? Ie not that insulting?
Also, is douchey strictly referring to a matter of taste, or does it imply aspects of character as well? (The answer to both questions is pretty clear from your comments but I want to clarify the implications...see next)
" A "douche-mobile" is defined as "Any vehicle created strictly to fulfill the purposes of
being the fastest,
look the coolest,
have the most bling, be the loudest and most furious and/or the most expensive"."
I get the latter ones in regards to "doucheyness" and to a lesser degree tend to agree, as a matter of personal taste.
But the first two?
being the fastest,
look the coolest,
I dont understand the connection to "doucheyness."
Last q: can a person like what you give as examples of doucheyness and still not be a douchebag?
For example, I happen to like the RM piece you show (for a women, but even if a man chose to wear it...) Does that make me a douche?
Cheers,
TM
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, in this thread.
As I digest your comments, may I ask for a clarification(s)?
What does "douchey" mean, as you are using it? To me it is a very derogatory, almost offensive, term, like "cunt" or "slut" used to be when used to refer to women. Interestingly "slut" aint what it used to be and "bitch" though it still isnt yet a compliment, has lost much of its pejorative meaning. Maybe to you "douchey" is the same? Ie not that insulting?
Also, is douchey strictly referring to a matter of taste, or does it imply aspects of character as well? (The answer to both questions is pretty clear from your comments but I want to clarify the implications...see next)
" A "douche-mobile" is defined as "Any vehicle created strictly to fulfill the purposes of
being the fastest,
look the coolest,
have the most bling, be the loudest and most furious and/or the most expensive"."
I get the latter ones in regards to "doucheyness" and to a lesser degree tend to agree, as a matter of personal taste.
But the first two?
being the fastest,
look the coolest,
I dont understand the connection to "doucheyness."
Last q: can a person like what you give as examples of doucheyness and still not be a douchebag?
For example, I happen to like the RM piece you show (for a women, but even if a man chose to wear it...) Does that make me a douche?
Cheers,
TM
With these last two posts I think we are at a point where we need a common definition of the word.
I would disagree with Scott that the items he alludes to are "douchey" in and of themselves. But my sense of the meaning of the word may be different than Scott's. Again, I don't think the item is douchey until a douche uses it in a douchey way. But...most of these items Scott points to are certainly not to my taste/bling/unattractive/undesirable without any added cachet from the owner/wearer. So maybe it's just the descriptor that is the problem here-for me.
There Is A Bit To Unpack Here, So...
... Here are some answers to your questions. I do not know if the answers are right or wrong, I believe it depends on one's personal point-of-view:
*****What does "douchey" mean, as you are using it? To me it is a very derogatory, almost offensive, term, like "cunt" or "slut".
*****What does "douchey" mean, as you are using it? To me it is a very derogatory, almost offensive, term, like "cunt" or "slut".
To me, the core of the word really means "showey" or "glitterly" in an excessive manner. I do not find the word offensive in the way I find the words "cunt" or "slut" offensive. Both of these words are purposefully derogatory and hurtful when used in a particular context. To give it equal time, one of the guys that works for me is from England and everything is a "cunt", including the cup of coffee he has every morning. That's not derogatory or hurtful, it's just plain funny. End of the day, your observation is correct: "Douchey" isn't meant to be that insulting.
*****Also, is douchey strictly referring to a matter of taste, or does it imply aspects of character as well? (The answer to both questions is pretty clear from your comments but I want to clarify the implications...see next)
Yes, in my opinion "douchey" can be used when referring to matters of taste, or even certain behaviors. As an example, whenever we go out to dinner with the large group of people that is my family, there is one family member who knows full well the bill is going to be split equally amongst the tribe and proceeds to order more than one cocktail, an appetizer, the most expensive entre', desert, an after dinner drink and a cappuccino. Worse, when the bill comes there have been times she isn't even around to pay her share of it. My wife, brother and sisters have all referred to her as a "douche bag" at one time or another, and it has been strongly suggested she not be invited to subsequent family gatherings. However, never has anyone ever called her a "c" or an "s". In fact, she is actually a very sweet person who, for whatever reason, happens to have this strange sense of entitlement when we all go out together. Has this part of her character earned her the label of being a 'douche'? It certainly goes a long way to help understand why those who end up having to pay more than their fair share could feel that way.
As submitted in previous comments, I believe I have made it abundantly clear the term "douche" isn't meant to be that insulting. But I have certainly taken notice there are those that seem to be particularly offended by it and for that, my apologies. After all, in French the word means "shower", so it is not meant to be as shaming as words like cunt or slut. Admittedly, I love the word "bitch" and I'm not giving it up. "Bitch" is one of those words whose meaning depends on how one says it, not the word itself. For example, I'll call up one of my douche-bag homeys and ask 'em, "Where you at?"... and because they think they're all smart n' shit, they'll say something back like, "Yoe, don't end a sentence with a preposition..." to which I reply, "Okay... Where you at... bitch?"
*****" A "douche-mobile" is defined as "Any vehicle created strictly to fulfill the purposes of being the fastest, look the coolest, have the most bling, be the loudest....
Yes. the definition is from the Urban Dictionary and I agree with this statement. Anything that needs to push the envelope in each and every respect can be considered douchey. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is, in fact, douchey, as this is more a matter of opinion. In no way is it meant to be a statement of fact. The connection between the two is in the eye of the beholder. One person's floor is another person's ceiling. One man's trash is another man's treasure. One person looks up and sees the gutter, the other looks up and sees the stars... I think you get my drift. True reflection demands equal time.
***** Last q: can a person like what you give as examples of doucheyness and still not be a douchebag?
***** For example, I happen to like the RM piece you show (for a women, but even if a man chose to wear it...) Does that make me a douche?
***** For example, I happen to like the RM piece you show (for a women, but even if a man chose to wear it...) Does that make me a douche?
Yes. A person can like anything "douchey" and not be a douchebag. Diva? That's another matter. Is Mariah Carey's golden microphone douchey? Is Katy Perry's? Yes. By design. And if you asked either about it, my guess is with a wink-and-a-nudge their collective response would be, "Yes, dawling, isn't this golden microphone just marvelously douchey in each and every way?" So again, it's a matter of taste, probably with a splash of "I'm not going to take myself too seriously" thrown in. I suppose lots of people happen to like the RM I posted, and candidly speaking I don't know any of those people well enough to form an opinion about how this particular proclivity would make them a douche, per se. In short, liking such an item doesn't necessarily make a person a douche. I hope that clears it up.
Enjoy the holiday weekend.
- Scott
Lol um...
Hi, Scott,
In re: "douche"
'After all, in French the word means "shower"'
But in English, and particularly in the US, as a verb and noun douche usually refers to vaginal irrigation or the product to rinse the vagina...and generally when used as an adjective is not considered a compliment, one's preferences for cunnilingus notwithstanding...
"Anything that needs to push the envelope in each and every respect can be considered douchey. "
By this definition most of the conversation surrounding watches and watch collecting, certainly most of the conversation around the table at Robin Hood, would be "douchey..."
Ok, you have confirned my gut feelings, thanks.
Enjoy the rest of the holiday weekend.
TM
In re: "douche"
'After all, in French the word means "shower"'
But in English, and particularly in the US, as a verb and noun douche usually refers to vaginal irrigation or the product to rinse the vagina...and generally when used as an adjective is not considered a compliment, one's preferences for cunnilingus notwithstanding...
"Anything that needs to push the envelope in each and every respect can be considered douchey. "
By this definition most of the conversation surrounding watches and watch collecting, certainly most of the conversation around the table at Robin Hood, would be "douchey..."
Ok, you have confirned my gut feelings, thanks.
Enjoy the rest of the holiday weekend.
TM
My thoughts.
Name calling and using derogatory terms to describe people for their lifestyle or possessions is not conducive to a harmonious society. Being judgemental and quick to label people into certain categories is discrimination to a certain extent. Different cultures have different norms and standards and we should accept such differences. A small community mentality limits growth and fosters prejudices that may lead to conflict and misunderstanding.
We have a super car club here in the city and from time to time they partake in charity events such as taking under privileged or terminally ill children for joy rides. These are well attended and are highly appreciated by the organisers as well as bringing much happiness to the children. There is a large contingent of Lamborghini owners amongst them, who are not the least hesitant to use their prized possession for this purpose. I would not call them anything but kind hearted.
If we limit ourselves to accepting only what we believe to be correct by our standards and denounce others who may not share the same values, are we not being close minded?
This forum has always held high standards IMO and is open to all. I would hate to see less postings of certain cars or watches because of some sweeping undeserved remark from certain individuals who see diversity as a drawback.
Best Regards,
Fernando
Indeed indeed and I wholy agree with you on every thing, there should be no tolerance if not zero tolerance with people who just insult and degrade others for the sake of it
We are all different whether it comes to tastes, personality, financial means and way of thinking. However we have one passion, which is watches which goes along with others. This forum is one of the most open minded and kind hearted I know.
Some people don't realize the chance they have to post in such a great and enthusiastic forum , but good manners and education are not part of everyone's behavior. Also gratitude is not also part of everyone's behavior.
But again, this forum has high standards and it deserves the best.
Best regards
Georges
Some people don't realize the chance they have to post in such a great and enthusiastic forum , but good manners and education are not part of everyone's behavior. Also gratitude is not also part of everyone's behavior.
But again, this forum has high standards and it deserves the best.
Best regards
Georges
A different perspective....
In my travels I have found the following questions quite an interesting experience to answer for any product.
1. Do I respect the engineering approach?
2. Do I respect the company corporate values and behaviours?
3. The people engineering it?
4. Do I want one?
For Lamborghini it is:
1. Yes,
2. Yes (Lamborghini company not the parent)
3. Yes, love them to bits.
4. In a heartbeat, in baby blue.
Velociphile
pretty much a check list applicable to any item of desire, cars, watches, even hotels for luxury travel. Thanks, Doc. great to see your post.
Hope all's well.
The only one that springs to mind in Patek...
probably others too... umm Rolex?
Just stirring a bit
Cheers
Andrew