Comments:
1. No refernce number may not be a big issue but I would be more comfortable- not a deal breaker,
2. If case has been polished inside stamps should not be affected.
3. I do not think it is a fake but possibly the case back was remade if over polished in the past ( rest of case is not over polished). The "soft " stamping is a concern but I am not sure
4. I have asked the vendor to get an extract
5. Never dealt with the vendor before but I have got good references for him
6. I know John well and hope he does respond to this post. I think he is in NYC for Christies auction
Thanks again for all your input
I will keep you informed
Julian
Vintage PP advice
Would love the thoughts of all you vintage PP experts out there
I am thinking of purchasing a vintage piece ref 1593
Got all the pics incl the inside of the case back
2 concerns
1. No reference number
2. The stamps look "soft" worn out almost. The case itself is pristine as is the dial . Movement a bit rough- the lack of consistencyy does concern but is possible as I have seen it before
I have included a better example of what I am sure is a true casebook from a similar model
Does anyone have any int regarding the stamps on the casebook- are they Ok
Most I have and have seen have much better definition- I know the actual pic is little poor as well which does not help
Here they are
concern ?
definite example
many thanks in advance for your input
Julian
I would avoid
this watch as the stamping is not Patek Philippe quality. I am sure that if it was genuine, the stamps would be sharper and precise. Just my two cents
I'm not a vintage expert
But here are a few things I can tell if it may help you.
I think you have the Banberry book so you certainly managed to check the movement's number period (p.129).
I also found this picture on the net:
What I notice in the second picture you posted and in this one is that there are 2 kind of "rails" at each end of the case (on the right and on the left).
These parts are missing in you first picture. I don't know if it is a normal change or not.
I really can't help about whether it is genuine or not.
You seem to be hunting something nice Julian, good luck
Cheers, Mark
I think you have the Banberry book so you certainly managed to check the movement's number period (p.129).
I also found this picture on the net:
Credit: Era l'ora
What I notice in the second picture you posted and in this one is that there are 2 kind of "rails" at each end of the case (on the right and on the left).
These parts are missing in you first picture. I don't know if it is a normal change or not.
I really can't help about whether it is genuine or not.
You seem to be hunting something nice Julian, good luck
Cheers, Mark
If this is not original...
.. then I am truly scared of the vintage market these days, especially if the rest of the watch passes your inspection.
My thoughts: My feeling is that this is ok. Wearing down of stamped casebacks happens all the time with vintage PP and this example does not strike me as terribly different from others that I have seen. Also, I don't believe the lack of a ref # is an issue, especially if your 1593 is from the early 1940s (which I think it is). If it is from the 1950s or beyond, then I would begin to worry, because these Hour Glasses do have stamped reference numbers. I would guess that the watch has been at least lightly polished at some point in the relative near future (last 15 years), which may explain the inconsistency in condition with that of the movement and caseback. If it comes on its original GF bracelet, this can be another reference point regarding condition (and frankly, a very strong indicator that this watch is all original).
My recommendations: 1. Feel comfortable with the vendor; 2. Order archive papers; 3. If need be, consult with John Naga from our forum (if you don't know him, message me and I'll send you his info) or other leading vintage PP expert.
Love this model by the way. It looks like you've decided to go with gold, but if you're also considering the platinum version, I know someone personally who has one for sale (diamond markers, GF bracelet, pm me if you'd like more info). Anyway, good luck with the hunt! Love this reference
Cheers,
Matt
Matt
Thans all for the feedback
1. No refernce number may not be a big issue but I would be more comfortable- not a deal breaker,
2. If case has been polished inside stamps should not be affected.
3. I do not think it is a fake but possibly the case back was remade if over polished in the past ( rest of case is not over polished). The "soft " stamping is a concern but I am not sure
4. I have asked the vendor to get an extract
5. Never dealt with the vendor before but I have got good references for him
6. I know John well and hope he does respond to this post. I think he is in NYC for Christies auction
Thanks again for all your input
I will keep you informed
Julian