Comments:
Why 5196 stayed but 5296 gone?
Maybe some members already knew or explained before but I missed it and a quick search shows no concrete answer.
If I look at WT references for example, it goes from 51xx (5110->5130) to 5230 and 5131 to 5231. Then why did the 5296 went away but the 5196s stayed, like reversing trend?
Was it because of the movement? I thought 5296 using 324s is more modern than the 5196’s 215?
The new Calatrava 5212 also starts with 52.
Any good inputs, please?
If I look at WT references for example, it goes from 51xx (5110->5130) to 5230 and 5131 to 5231. Then why did the 5296 went away but the 5196s stayed, like reversing trend?
Was it because of the movement? I thought 5296 using 324s is more modern than the 5196’s 215?
The new Calatrava 5212 also starts with 52.
Any good inputs, please?
They have different functions. And these models sell not good enough to keep
different models within the same niche. Just a couple of years ago, till 2014 i guess, there were 5127, 5196 and 5227. Its both for the company and the consumer interesting to have complicated pieces so TS decided to reduce pieces to sell as much complicated pieces as possible. Same with 5227 that is much more expensive because of the caseback.
5196 is similar in style but fills the conservative niche (they reduced some of their clous de paris models, the email version) with handwinding and small second, so they could not reduce that.
People loved the sector dial of the 5296 and PP obviously thinks that those people are willing to pay 7k more to get the new SS calatrava 5212 wich is similar in terms of "sporty chic" in the context of the calatrava line. Edit: i just realized PP killed their entire clous de paris line. Obviously 5120 and the email version, but there is not a single version left in the catalogue, no 5119 anymore. So then its even more rational: Keep 5227 but not the 5296. And then: Keep 5196 but not 5119.
People loved the sector dial of the 5296 and PP obviously thinks that those people are willing to pay 7k more to get the new SS calatrava 5212 wich is similar in terms of "sporty chic" in the context of the calatrava line. Edit: i just realized PP killed their entire clous de paris line. Obviously 5120 and the email version, but there is not a single version left in the catalogue, no 5119 anymore. So then its even more rational: Keep 5227 but not the 5296. And then: Keep 5196 but not 5119.
Thanks for the input. 5227 is still here today...
so that follows the number code. I'm surprised to see the 5296 sector dial gone too.
However, the creation of a 5212 in SS has resulted in another hot watch which is not readily available, long waiting list and "hard to get", so does it really help the Calatrava line, or yet to come...always interesting to ponder.
However, the creation of a 5212 in SS has resulted in another hot watch which is not readily available, long waiting list and "hard to get", so does it really help the Calatrava line, or yet to come...always interesting to ponder.
Even the 5296 was a watch that was hard to get in the sense that I was looking across some 10 dealers on 2 continents until I found the one I wanted in Kuwait:
I am also happy that I bought one just before it was discontinued.
Perfect watch, lovely pictures. Im glad you did it. Congratulations! [nt]
No message body
I just wish I wore it more often... It's also the smallest watch I have at 38mm.
As I am a more "modern" guy, preferring watches with diameters between 40 and 42mm, I wished the 5296 would be 40mm but I am suspecting this might ruin the overall look of the watch on my wrist. I also noticed that in the Complications section Patek has gone up to 41 and 42mm while the 5212 has also grown to 40mm, so I really hope there will be no 40mm 5296-ish looking watch soon, as then I would have to sell mine and get the larger one.
Congrats on your 5296...
I never knew this was so difficult to find because I think I saw them on display in US ADs.
You sure about 40-42mm? How this 5522A look?
I totally love this watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congratulations on owning one! My AD in Philadelphia with whom I had relationship told me that it was reserved for their US-based customers only... [nt]
No message body
It does have all the right ingredients :)
Wow...I didn’t know there is such a restriction on customers? I thought this watch is for US based ADs and it will be up to ADs to allocate but I guess I’m wrong.
So I’m lucky then...Thanks for making my day!
So I’m lucky then...Thanks for making my day!
It is a keeper for me but sad to say or see there are also flippers :( Thank you! [nt]
No message body
I liked the 5296 sector much more than the 5212.
But isnt it the case that it has helped the collection to become more relevant? When they are continuing the 5212 path, the calatrava will be the little brother of the Nautilus and GMT Master in terms of waiting list and that would be a huge succes. That beeing said, the sector dial had so much more charme for its true vintage feel comparing to the timeless (in a imo negative sense) 5212.
I feel the 5212 strategy will help the Calatrava line in the long run...
The more I look at this 5296 sector dial now, the better it appears to me.
Who knows, it may be a future classic.
Who knows, it may be a future classic.
Sector AC very underrated!
I hadn’t realized there was historical precedence for a sector complication - but in the goldberger steel Patek book on page 7 shows a sector PCC (ironically in yellow gold)
The x96 number of course ties to the reference 96 calatrava
The x96 number of course ties to the reference 96 calatrava - so the x96 watches have a difference numbering convention. 5196 5296 5396 5496 are more hierarchical than based on newness.
The reason 5196 is still in the collection and the 5296 is not, is that the 5296 is more of a bread and butter model that is going to be updated sooner than the 5196 will be. The 5196 has an older movement than basically any of the full rotor automatic calatravas have ever had (other than vintage.)
In my ~10 year history here i have hoped for a larger manual wind calatrava movement, but it clearly seems that the automatic/date movement is much more important to Patek (based on volume i would presume!)
Right....I forget about the more complicated 53/5496s.
Plus, now that you mentioned, there isn't really any modern (by modern, I agree a bigger movement), manual wind PP watches besides the mechanical chronographs or perpetual calendar chronos.
Therefore, keeping the manual 215 makes more sense now...Thank you!
Therefore, keeping the manual 215 makes more sense now...Thank you!
Agreed. I’m in the market for my first Calatrava...
And I do love the 5196, but struggling to get past the huge movement ring they need to put inside it! The 3796 is a work of art, but just too small. I’ve recently been obsessing over the 5096 (an obsession recently fueled even more by someone posting it on here a few days ago) which seems a happy medium. I’m not usually a yellow gold guy, but if I can track down a good example I’d be very tempted.
I don’t know what it is about the 5196, because I wouldn’t even care if they kept the solid case back, and I don’t have a problem with the proportions of the design as I think it looks stunning, but just knowing that movement is in there would sully it for me, and at Pateks prices, I need to be 100% sure!
I don’t know what it is about the 5196, because I wouldn’t even care if they kept the solid case back, and I don’t have a problem with the proportions of the design as I think it looks stunning, but just knowing that movement is in there would sully it for me, and at Pateks prices, I need to be 100% sure!
I've been through the exact same analysis and came to the same conclusions.
I was very close to buying a 5096 but couldn't find the right copy. In addition to getting a full sized movement for the sake of perhaps what i would call integrity (for lack of a better word) AND the small seconds would be better positioned in a properly scaled movement!
If the 5196p had the right sized movement with accompanying better scale of the small seconds and transparent back - and were trading at the ~30K price range - oh boy!!!!!! A dream design with all the contemporary benefits in platinum!!! I get butterflies thinking about it!
If the 5196p had the right sized movement with accompanying better scale of the small seconds and transparent back - and were trading at the ~30K price range - oh boy!!!!!! A dream design with all the contemporary benefits in platinum!!! I get butterflies thinking about it!
96 is sized okay for men
It takes an hour or two to get used to the case size, then you will forget it's there. The case centers very well in the arm. Chk
That’s the way it goes. Perfect indeed. A true gentleman’s thinking. I’m with you friend. A perfect watch for gentlemen [nt]
No message body
In total agreement. I would get used to its size after 2 or 3 minutes, only. ;) [nt]
No message body
Indeed; one can feel very satisfied, fairly quickly, with a 96 on the wrist.
Good day, chk
Is that the ancestor Ref 96, one that’s started all this?
Looks great for its age and on your wrist, congratulations 🎉
Very cool - I hope to obtain someday
Definitely the 96 works well particularly with the domed crystal- the 3796 seems like it might wear smaller with the flatter domed sapphire
I wouldn’t stress about the movement, is fantastically reliable
www.timezone.com google walt odets patek 215 on timezone: watch is meant to be worn and wound every day, hence the bulletproof 215
Ill do a post on this soon
https://www.timezone.com/2002/09/16/patek-philippes-bread-and-butter-the-caliber-215/
https://www.timezone.com/2002/09/16/patek-philippes-bread-and-butter-the-caliber-215/
The winding feels great for the 215...Looking forward to your post! [nt]
No message body
I really like the 5196. A watch I would have loved to keep in my collection. Ok, the Cal 215 is a tad too small for the case, and the small seconds is too centered but what a charm! [nt]
No message body