Comments:
Slow down Chicken Little
I'm confident that Patek will properly address this issue and we can put all this nonsense finally to rest. If HSWA has gone rogue as the OP's experience would suggest, then I'm sure that Patek Geneva will et them straight. IMO Patek has some work to do to improving ridiculously protracted service times, and perhaps some QC issues as well. But "time to sell" because of whatever misguided or misinformed policy that HSWA may have - I think not.
Let's just say I'm confident they'll do the right thing.
Whatever benefit, real or imagined, from such a policy is most certainly false economy. Jubilation may not yet be in order, but neither the pessimism of ETM's "time to sell guys", wouldn't you agree?
Looking at the responses to my earlier post
it appears the Mag..-Moss Act in the US does require a Full Warranty to extend to subsequent purchasers during the warranty period, however, a Limited Warranty does not have to so extend. The question then is the PP a full or limited warranty?
As per the ftc.gov link that I posted on the first page of the TRF thread...
[quote]
If your warranty contains a provision that restricts who has rights under the warranty, you must include a statement explaining specifically who is covered. For example, if your limited warranty is valid only for the first purchaser, your warranty must state that. Note that this applies only to limited warranties. A full warranty must cover anyone who owns the product during the period of coverage, as discussed on page 10.
If your warranty contains a provision that requires your customers to use a dispute resolution mechanism before suing under the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for breach of warranty, you must include:
- a statement informing consumers that they can sue under state law without first using the mechanism, but that before suing under the Magnuson-Moss Act, they must first try to resolve the dispute through the mechanism; and
- information and materials about the dispute mechanism, including the name and address or a toll-free telephone number, or a form for filing a claim.
[endquote]
Again I reiterate that I am not in the legal profession, but in my estimation, regards the text that I have emboldened, HSWA (and Patek too, by association, if not ownership) is royally screwed!
Can a member please post the Email address for their Geneva HQ?
I can't find their Email address.
THE WARRANTY FOLLOWS THE WATCH, NOT THE OWNER!
I just spoke with Patek. So t6his issue should be clear now.
Best, Kari
Best, Kari
Yes, Kari....
did they also tell you that you need original Certificate of origin not the copy, like you would need a warranty card with any other watch? Curious Best Edward
They did not.
Luckily I have sent a watch just one time for small repairs during the warranty period and nothing was asked.
Best, Kari
Confirmation from Geneva
I received confirmation as well that the warranty follows the watch. However it does appear that HSWA has gone rogue which is strange as it's a subsidiary of Geneva.
just for clarification,
if HSWA sends the watch to Geneva for repair (as I understand they do with complications above an AC) would the bill be generated from HSWA or from Patek Geneva? If it's the later, than any HSWA policy is moot. Regardless, it seems incredulous that Patek Geneva could allow such disparity.
HSWA bills the client. Their profit comes from having an agreed contract rate with Geneva, which is obviously lower than the service charges listed on the Patek website.
Internally handled warranty repairs will be invoiced to Geneva, and I presume the same (for accounting purposes) with the pieces that only Geneva handles.
None of which absolves Geneva from supposedly not knowing that HSWA has been misrepresenting the warranty terms coverage – a “mistake” that doesn’t continue unabated for 10+ years.
None of which absolves Geneva from supposedly not knowing that HSWA has been misrepresenting the warranty terms coverage – a “mistake” that doesn’t continue unabated for 10+ years.
Do we know that for fact?
Whilst HSWA stated this policy has been in force for 10 years we have had enough anecdotal evidence from owners stating that their watches had been repaired under warranty. If this had been going on for 10 years why the sudden riotous indignation??? Wouldn't this have occurred earlier? More likely they have recently started implementimg this incorrect policy....who really knows? Well apart from TS!
Maybe nad maybe not
The problem is that, right now, I don't know and you don't know either.
Just to say that we speculate a lot, this issue unveils many question but as long as we don't have the facts, we may drw wrong conclusions.
What you presume in your last answer is yet to be validate by facts.
I'll bring a temporary conclusion to the post.
Thanks anyway for your participation in disccussing that matter.
Mark
Just to say that we speculate a lot, this issue unveils many question but as long as we don't have the facts, we may drw wrong conclusions.
What you presume in your last answer is yet to be validate by facts.
I'll bring a temporary conclusion to the post.
Thanks anyway for your participation in disccussing that matter.
Mark
========== AS A CONCLUSION ========== (Please Read) ==========
Well everyone,
This is indeed an important issue that was adressed for owners. That's a reason why we need always more facts to determine what's real and what isn't. We live in a world of social medias and "journalism" where rumors get more and more power. When they are not reliable, it is very difficult to fix things a posteriori.
You can find the 2 updates here below about how the warranty works.
Thanks all for your participation, I learned a lot by the way.
Best,
Mark
PuristSPro moderator.
_____________________________________
UPDATE: PJ S has shared Patek Philippe SA's answer, here www.watchprosite.com
What we thought is confirmed: the warranty is worldwide and linked to the watch.
_____________________________________
UPDATE 2: Here is the answer I received from Patek Philippe headquarters Customer Services:
- The Patek Philippe warranty concerns the watch and not the owner.
- The watch is then covered by the warranty during the 24 months from the first purchase's date (indicated on the Certificate of Ownership), no matter if the watch was sold afterwards (even several times) within these 24 months.
- However, if the Certificate of Ownership is modified or impaired, then the warranty can be refused.
Thus confirming what we said.
Thanks everyone.
Mark
To be honest, it would be quite easy for PP Geneva, who has undoubtedly seen this thread...
...to take the initiative and issue a clarification for all of us. Frankly, I would expect nothing less. PP should be fully transparent about its policies.
Other than that, I do agree that speculation is not helpful, and what we really need is a formal clarification from PP.
Cheers,
John
Other than that, I do agree that speculation is not helpful, and what we really need is a formal clarification from PP.
Cheers,
John
I agree John
That would be the next step we need. Since we don't have the info, then only the owners can send the demand to Patek Philippe and get an anwser. That's at least what I would do if I was in the US.
Maybe Patek is working on it already? I don't know.
Best, Mark
Social Media
I was discussing this thread on another forum with PP today. Whilst they monitor social media they are not in a position to participate in the forums. Thus invariably leads the poster to hold all the power as they cannot refute some of the statements. They shared some examples with me. They realize the power of this medium and that it needs to be recognized and handled but sometimes it's best to be quite than to challenge inaccuracies which just end up being tit for tats
Geneva
The impression I got from Geneva is that it's PP policy to follow the watch! They were contacting HSWA today to clarify to them. So let's see
This received from Patek Philippe SA, via e-mail.
[quote]
Dear “PJ S”,
Dear “PJ S”,
Thank you for your mail
Please be advised, the Product Warranty is covered , worldwide, for a period of 24 months from the dated of the purchase.
A Certificate of Origin was issued for any watch. Among other information, it indicates the movement and the case numbers.
It has to be signed and dated by an Authorized Patek Philippe Retailer, the name of the customer must be entered to confirm the authenticity of the watch and validate the guarantee privileges.
A Certificate of Origin was issued for any watch. Among other information, it indicates the movement and the case numbers.
It has to be signed and dated by an Authorized Patek Philippe Retailer, the name of the customer must be entered to confirm the authenticity of the watch and validate the guarantee privileges.
Kindly notice, the Certificate of the origin is only issued for this purchase.
The warranty is covering the Product, therefore If the watch is sold, the warranty is still valid for the period after the first purchase.
The warranty is covering the Product, therefore If the watch is sold, the warranty is still valid for the period after the first purchase.
We trust that we have better clarified the situation and answered your questions.
We wish to thank you once again for contacting us and remain at your entire disposal for any further assistance you may need.
We wish to thank you once again for contacting us and remain at your entire disposal for any further assistance you may need.
Yours sincerely,
Best regards
O. R.
International Customer Service
‘e-mail address omitted'
[endquote]
International Customer Service
‘e-mail address omitted'
[endquote]
My message was as follows…
[quote2]
Hi,
Hi,
I phoned a few moments ago, in the hope of speaking with a senior level person who could explain the 2-year manufacturer warranty coverage.
My query is in relation to whom the warranty covers during the 2 years after a Patek Philippe timepiece is first purchased.
Specifically, if the original owner sells the timepiece privately or to a watch trader / dealer after 6 months, does the subsequent owner still benefit from the remainder of the 2 year warranty?
My query is in relation to whom the warranty covers during the 2 years after a Patek Philippe timepiece is first purchased.
Specifically, if the original owner sells the timepiece privately or to a watch trader / dealer after 6 months, does the subsequent owner still benefit from the remainder of the 2 year warranty?
On the presumption that Patek Philippe operates like the rest of the watch industry, and the warranty remains with the watch at all times (as long as the owner is a private individual / consumer), then is is correct to say the same policy is applied worldwide?
If not, then which countries or regions are exempt from having the warranty apply to second (or even third) owners?
If not, then which countries or regions are exempt from having the warranty apply to second (or even third) owners?
Thank you very much, and I look forward to receiving your response.
“PJ S”
[endquote2]
“PJ S”
[endquote2]
Thanks a lot for sharing your request to Patek Philippe SA
I think that it is quite clear now.
Now, owners who may hear otherwise should be able to ask their dealer/service center to contact Patek HQ or contact Patek directly.
As I said, I was very surprised and I hope that from now on things will come in order.
Thanks PJ S.
Best, Mark
Gray Market
There really is no gray market for PP watches as all the new watches are only sold by authorized agents with the original papers. When you buy an unworn watch at a huge discount from a non Patek retailor they either bought it from a retail purchaser or an authorized retailor. If your name is not on the papers you are really buying a used watch as it has already been sold by the authorized dealer to someone else. . The watch is considered sold when it leaves the authorized retailor. We are seeing a buyer's market now as world wide authorized retailors are letting many watches go at cost to third party retailors whose can provide the watches new with open papers. Known as back door selling in the business.
Than you can safely assume .....
that these "Gray market" watches will be covered by third party warranty not Patek's . Cheers Edward
Maybe, maybe not.
What I think watch-er is referring to is a "brokerage" system that has grown up around the Patek trade. Quite a few ADs have too many Pateks on hand and can't move them, so no turnover, no money and no new Pateks, or whatever else the dealer sells.
Along comes a broker with a buyer. He gets the dealer to sell him a piece at a substantial discount, maybe at cost, and gets the dealer to stamp the piece as sold to a "straw man". The "straw man" gives the watch to the broker who turns around and sells the watch as used (and unworn), with a legitimate dealer stamp, to his buyer-still at a discount the buyer could not get because he doesn't know where to look. I am pretty sure this would all be legitimate and Patek would honor the warranty, at least anywhere but here in the U.S.-which is illegal as has been pointed out above.
Along comes a broker with a buyer. He gets the dealer to sell him a piece at a substantial discount, maybe at cost, and gets the dealer to stamp the piece as sold to a "straw man". The "straw man" gives the watch to the broker who turns around and sells the watch as used (and unworn), with a legitimate dealer stamp, to his buyer-still at a discount the buyer could not get because he doesn't know where to look. I am pretty sure this would all be legitimate and Patek would honor the warranty, at least anywhere but here in the U.S.-which is illegal as has been pointed out above.
Makes sense.
....thank you Padj for this insight. I noticed one US dealer claiming to be a Patek online AD, but they offer only their own warranty. Maybe a loophole . Best Edward
If you get a watch
with your name on the papers, no problem with the warranty. But, we do see third party dealers offering their own warranties on new unworn watches. So they may believe the warranty does not follow the watch. I personally do not put much stack in a re-sellers in house warranty. I would prefer PP work on new watches. As Padj stated it is more of a brokerage system than "gray market" as all PP watches are only sold through authorized dealers. By definition they cannot be gray market, they are just being brokered or resold as new by the non PP dealer.