Montblanc

There are many examples of watch manufactures changing ownership but retaining their original names. LVMH, Swatch and Richemont have made an art of it.

I assume that Montblanc felt there was more cachet in having their own name than the historical Minerva name on the dial. I realise they have retained the Minerva branding on some of the movements.

Did they make the right decision? Interested in your thoughts.

A

...name carries some brand value across a variety of clientele, including non-WIS who maybe came to these watches through the world of pens, so I don't think it's a mistake that they chose to brand their timepieces as they did.  However, for me personally, I think the name Minerva on the dial, in that lovely flowing font of theirs, is the height of romance, so I'd take a Minerva over a Montblanc any day! 

Cheers,
Daos 

Montblanc does not have heritage or tradition of making fine watches.

I respect your opinion happyguy1688 but I was wondering if you could help me understand your reasoning.

So you would prefer " Minerva" on the dial all by itself?

Okay, so in the two-three year history when the company was transformed by the Italian group and when "Minerva" was proudly displayed on the dial why did the venture fail?  Recall this failure occurred in a period of watch frenzy and bloated economics.  It should have thrived but instead the group contacted Richmont and asked to be bought out.

Minerva has changed hands  many times in the past decade so Its heritage and tradition of making fine watches didn't guarentee its financial solvency.  I am willing to argue that for most of its modern history Minerva DIDNOT make "fine" watches and that is why it found itself in its dire economic situation over and over again. 

To keep everything the exact same would be inviting history to repeat itself  imho. 

Actually I think Minerva has more to gain with the name "Montblanc" associated with it then the other way around. 

 

Cheers, Mike

 

Hi Mike,

I think you're probably understating it, if anything.   I don't think Minerva produced anything that would be considered high-end.  Perhaps one or two pieces, but the VAST majority of their output was middle-of-the range at best.

nick

Villerret (sans logo and dial). But they had no means to promote and market them. If I recall correctly, the Italian owner did not allow them to spend significant money for marketing.

I think this highlights the difference of being a company and an individual artisan. The former needs a name and broad recognition to sell, the latter can build on his skills as advertisement. That, I might argue, would be the case even if the watches would be identical. A strange world, the watch world.

Best,
Magnus
This message has been edited by Magnus Bosse on 2009-05-21 00:41:42

Magnus is right.

In the end I think Minerva failed because it  was poorly managed by its previous Italian owners,  not a reflection of the skills of the Minerva employees which they aptly demonstrated with their finished watches.

I'm hoping this new reincarnation can be a harmonious relationship between management and artisans to the benifit of wath loving enthusiasts!

Cheers, Mike

Agreed.  But only for the last few years of their existence.  For the other 100+ years their output was resolutely mid-range, and their longevity was based on stopwatches,  which is hardly an haute horlogery selling point

I've been collecting Minerva for years, and I've never seen anything that was better than good mid-range, and I'm not aware of anything that was in the same class as PP, VC...

nick

sorry for the late reply to your post.  I'm trying to comment in between surgical cases

It is only the past few years that the level of finishing has dramatically improved.  I know that people are starting to compare the finish with PP, VC etc...Even for the modern pieces the consistant quality of the finish needs to be continued for many years before I think anyone could say MB Villeret is at the same standard as the "big three".  However I think they are off to a very good start.

Like you have said in the past Minerva was known for their manufacturing ability and forethought with the use of interchangeable parts.  I think digging through the archives Montblanc will be able to revive some of those older projects and make them unique.

 

Thanks Nick,

Mike

… why did Minerva fail as a brand when, as you mention, conditions should have been optimal for success. They have a long history with some classic designs to draw on.

 

Is there any concern with keeping Minerva as Manufacture Montblanc, just as Lemania became the sole supplier to Breguet and Piguet to Blancpain?

 

One of the most important things is that the manufacture survives, employment is provided and skills are retained.

 

Andrew

see above for a very breif answer to your questions.

On whether or not Minerva will be a sole manufacture for MB only I've also asked Alex to address this question!

 

BEst, MIke

it will be from the business director of the Villeret 1858 unit,  Mr. Alexander Schmeidt.

Andrew,  perhaps  your question can be better addressed after hearing Montblanc's thought process.  It is a valid question and concern for every Purist but I prefer to see it as an unifying issue rather than a dividing one. 

Here are two arguments I see plastered on the internet:

1. MB is using Minerva to artificially gain credibility so that is why their name is on the watch

What people tend to forget is that MB didnot initiate  a "hostile" takeover of Minerva in an effort to build some sort of horological legitimacy. Yet the relationship is being depicted as if this was the case.  The previous owners of Minerva approached Richemont for a "bailout".  In fact I would argue Minerva gets more credibility and visibility by have the Montblanc name associated with it.

2. MB can charge more by placing their name on the watch

Someone actually suggested that MB could gain more legitimacy with watch enthusiasts by lowering their pricing rather than charging "Patek prices".  Really?  Do watch enthusiasts need to be "bribed" this way? 

If we treasured the value of  "old Minerva" so much perhaps this review will jog people's memories of what an "old Minerva" watch really was like on the inside :    click here

Value is always a tricky argument.  I will not make a value argument for MB but I hope their watches will speak for themselves.  In the end it is a personal judgement call.  MB thinks the pricing structure is correct...let them prove it.

But these are past events.   The present and future are extremely important if Minerva wants to stay alive after this third reincarnation in only 10 years. 

We should highlight  the evolution and synergistic properties of this relationship.   The first year models were pure traditional classics (the chronographs that MB inherited from Minerva). The second generation showed already the first results of the involvement of MB with the two new retour a zero movement modifications.

The Cal. 16.30 actuaally is the next step in the evolution that MB wants to take: keeping all the traditional watchmaking  aspects- but blending them with innovation. That is actually the concept of the institut Minerva.

Unfinished prototype cal. 16-30 of the Grand Chronographe Regulateur 

Unfinished prototype cal. 16-30 of the Grand Chronographe Regulateur 

Best,

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

I don’t know the correct answer to this question myself. I didn’t want to elicit dividing comments amongst our Purist Brethren, but I also expected there to be strong opinions. I appreciate you seeking some comment from Montblanc directly.

 

Daos is correct that to the general public Montblanc has a well recognised and high value name and reputation. Those of us in here who place a great emphasis on history and pedigree and hold on to things like Minerva as a brand are probably in the minority.

 

Thanks also for reminding us of John’s balanced review of the Pythagore. It would seem that the new watches are finished to a higher standard, at least on the visible surfaces. That has to be a good thing (and better for staff satisfaction), but the prices are commensurate with this.

 

I look forward to further information and comment.

 

Andrew

I am glad you asked the question and I hope that there would be some disagreement within the community.  You know something is not right when everyone agrees...

What I meant in my post is that I hope  the final consensus amongst the community over the union between Montblanc and Minerva will be a good one based on facts and not on romantic (and often inaccurate) memories of Minerva.

Eventhough this is the MB forum I still expect Villeret to "prove themselves".

More information is on the way !

Best, Mike

 

Montblanc wanted to upgrade and became a real high end watch company.
So the deal that was presented to them by Minerva was logical
They bought a firm that made good and solid movements , invested and hope to harvest in the years to come
They did come out with a couple of complicated chronos and I expect that they will gain more respect in the watch market.
Are they going to reach the level of JLC, Lange or GO -in my opinion no, at least in the next few years.
however it is always a great thing to see a company that aspires to become better
cheers

The MB Rieussic model line I think will compare well with JLC and GO.  It will take only another year or two but I believe they will be the "sleeper" pick within that price range if the watch enthusiats can get over the " It's a Montblanc" mindset.

The Villeret collection I think is already very close if not at the level of Lange in terms of finish.  I'm comparing my Lange Arkade to the sample of a Villeret that I currently have for examination.  I'll try to throw in a comparison shot soon.

Cheers, Mike

if Montblanc could reach that level this soon
However I would like to be proven wrong as I am firm believer of antagonism-
it would make the other brands improve and compete even more- a collector's dream.
I think that MB move with Minerva, as I said before, was a great and wise move and looking forward to their future creations
Cheers

from Montblanc's Villeret collection to erase any doubts from your mind?

 

glad you are here,

Mike

to see some comparison photos with Lange, GO and JLC but I do think that the predominant opinion amongst watch collectors at the moment is that MB has not reached their level yet
cheers