Comments:
... and this thread provides an interesting education on expectations of the watch buying public. Some clearly think that exchanging the strap is a matter of customer service. Others think that it is unreasonable to return a used product.
Personally I think it is very reasonable for Lange, or any other company, to have rules about returned used straps. I wouldn't expect to be able to return a worn pair of shoes, and I wouldn't like to be sold a worn piece of personal apparel. Should Lange just throw this strap in the bin? Put it on a display watch? Possibly, but there are only so many of those. Sell it at a discount? If it becomes general knowledge that Lange allow customers to 'road test' straps, can you imagine the difficulty this could place them in? Slippery slope and open for abuse.
There are other ways that Lange can express their care for you as a customer. The first would be to spend as much time with you in the Boutique as required to make the right strap decision. Nothing should be too trivial and they shouldn't make you rush the decision. But once it is worn out the door I would personally consider it sold.
Regards,
Andrew
I think you've been treated well, gotten too accustomed to being treated well, and are complaining at the slightest thing when (in my opinion) you are in the wrong. You're unreasonable (in my opinion). You expect way too much in terms of being catered to your whims. And when things didn't go your way, you kind of retaliated by complaining here where the boutique can not rebut. I state these as facts of observation. I don't know you, it's not personal. We haven't met.
Fascinating range of responses ...
... and this thread provides an interesting education on expectations of the watch buying public. Some clearly think that exchanging the strap is a matter of customer service. Others think that it is unreasonable to return a used product.
Personally I think it is very reasonable for Lange, or any other company, to have rules about returned used straps. I wouldn't expect to be able to return a worn pair of shoes, and I wouldn't like to be sold a worn piece of personal apparel. Should Lange just throw this strap in the bin? Put it on a display watch? Possibly, but there are only so many of those. Sell it at a discount? If it becomes general knowledge that Lange allow customers to 'road test' straps, can you imagine the difficulty this could place them in? Slippery slope and open for abuse.
There are other ways that Lange can express their care for you as a customer. The first would be to spend as much time with you in the Boutique as required to make the right strap decision. Nothing should be too trivial and they shouldn't make you rush the decision. But once it is worn out the door I would personally consider it sold.
Regards,
Andrew
I side with the boutique.
This is a case of unrealistic expectations. This is also a case of using the internet as a trump card to complain when it would be useless for the boutique to offer a rebuttal.
You saw something that wasn't the original strap. You bought it because you liked it at the time. You changed your mind a few days later. Who's mistake was that? Why should the Lange boutique eat your mistake?
Put yourself in their shoes...
What kind of business are you in?
If you sold something in good faith and it was used, would you take it back?
What kind of precedent does that set?
What if all your customers did the same thing? Is that sustainable?
You never mentioned you bought watches from that actual boutique. You somewhat lead the reader into assuming that you do because you have a few Lange watches, but you never say you've patronized the boutique for the watches. Not that this matters. It's irrelevant.
Let's give a parallel scenario.
1. I buy a lot of cars from a dealer.
2. There is a new SUV I want, and I don't know if I would want it in the flat black or metallic black.
3. I explain this to the dealer. Dealer may say one of two things "wait until you see the flat black before you make your decision" or "I'm sure you will likely love the metallic black as much as the flat black." Regardless of either line they say, it's irrelevant.
4. I buy the metallic black one without seeing the flat black one.
5. A day later, I see my neighbor/colleague with the flat black one, I decide I don't like this metallic black and I want to get the flat black one.
6. Another day later, I tell this to the dealer.
7. Another day later, I drive the car in expecting it to be evenly traded.
Substitute "car" with other things. Shoes, clothes, etc.
Do I expect the dealer to trade the car for me?
1. Some would say, "But I'm a super VIP customer!" That's irrelevant.
2. Others, "But I send back bottles of wine and food at restaurants all the time! How come you don't do it." In many provinces/countries, that is a legal requirement, you are not obligated to pay for food you announce as substandard and will not consume.
3. "I'm sure your competitor next door would do the same and I'm not even a super VIP there, why are you so inconsistent with the marketplace?" "Our establishment isn't on the same bandwagon."
4. "You clearly have made a profit from me. Why can't you take a small loss on me this time?" Not sustainable if all of our clients wanted to do this.
Sometimes, there are things that are really hard to make a decision on. And there should be consumer protection on these things. But often there isn't enough consumer protection.
1. Tires. I have no idea how the car will perform with those tires. Also, tires behave differently as they wear. They're good for the first few thousand miles, and then sometimes they can become loud/harsh.
2. Cell phone coverage. The phone works well at the store, but does it work well at your home and office? Sometimes some phones don't work well at my home, but by the time I take it home, it can sometimes be too late as the contract is in place. It is costly to cancel the contract even though some contracts allow a short time for low-penalty cancellation. This high cost to cancel is because you've already made an investment in the hardware and the contract doesn't necessarily reimburse you fully for the hardware (phone).
Many others...
To our member "learner" I hope I don't come off as too harsh. But put yourself in their shoes. If you were in the boutique's shoes, you would find the customer downright unreasonable.
Also, you take a considerable risk by posting this here. Which I don't think you've thought out too well. Others like you will side with you, but present this to a judge/jury of "normal people" then I doubt you'll be supported. I wouldn't expect the invites anymore. The boutique would say you're a high risk client, "Burn me once, shame on you. But I won't give you the second chance to burn me twice."
Anyways learner, I hope you learn from this.
I respectfully agree w patrick
No message body This message has been edited by Iceman on 2013-04-29 14:13:38
I completely agree with you, patrick...
A company must have a set of rules to follow... the bigger the company, the stricter the policies would be, to enforce all the rules are put in order to sustain the company running on it's track... I am writing this not as a fellow of watch geek, but as a businessman who owns several companies, and understand the GENERAL laws of business... Prioritizing customer's satisfaction is important, but so does enforcing the rules and regulations in one's company... In my opinion, Lange has done much for you with dinner and such... and you Mr. Shocked has done some good damage to the company by airing your frustration in public...
I have several over $100,000 watches myself, most of em, i bought from the people from this forum, for instance, i got my Thunderbolt from Steve Hallock, who was the president of MB&F of N.America, then he introduced me to Max Busser himself. The ammo strap which was installed to the watch was in used condition and cracking everywhere, should i tell Max to give me another one just because i bought one of his most expensive creation? and because strap is cheap and non valuable compared to the value of the watch itself? No, i didn't do that! I know my place in the first place, even though in my case, it should be making much more sense; HM4 is rarer and more expensive than Dato obviously and MB&F has even less distribution channels than Lange, plus, i know Max personally and i bought the watch from his ex partner, not from just some random guy... so what's this strap ruckuss is all about? You are simply asking too much...
On the other hand, i bought my RM11 from a boutique in Singapore and made a great relationship with the store manager, one day i bought a pink satin strap for my wife's RM007 for her birthday present. But she didn't quite like it, so i asked the person for an exchange, guess what happened? Not only he upgraded the strap to her liking (white croc strap), but he charged no extra money though the msrp is higher. Why? Because he ensured that i am satisfied with the service as a prized customer, and because i had contributed my part, a good deed to both him and the store! That's how things work man.... GENERALLY.... If you are Asian, and live in HK, you of all people here should understand about the concept of RELATIONSHIP (guan xi). How can you expect someone to pamper you if you don't connect with them in the first place?
Not trying to brag on anything here, but just try to make myself clear.
Just my 2 cents... there is nothing personal here...
Best Regards,
Alex
Hugh, how would you feel about this?...
I've thought a lot about your posts and your situation. My reply is based on my culture (US), and I might respond very differently if I were in HK or elsewhere. I am clueless when it comes to the cultural differences between the two places, which is an important deficiency of mine!
So with that being said, let's pretend that I am the manager of your Lange boutique (or I am the Lange regional manager in that part of the world). And let's pretend that I just learned about your situation by reading this PuristsPro forum thread. So now I know what your expectations were, and how you handled the situation when your expectations were not met. If I have the facts correct, then here is how I would respond as the boutique or regional manager:
(1) I would apologize to you profusely, politely, and personally.
(2) I would immediately order a replacement strap, short length with contrasting stitching, at no additional cost to you. I would have it sent to you or offer to put on at the boutique at no charge -- your choice. I would include a small Lange gift -- a Lange baseball cap or something -- with the strap.
(3) I would insist that you keep the old black strap, as a courtesy -- no need to return it to us.
(4) I would insist that if you ever need to purchase any other Lange timepieces or accessories, then you should contact me directly, so that I can personally provide you with the attention and service that you expect and deserve.
(5) I would do all of the above -- (1)-(4) -- to ensure that you were 100% satisfied with the final resolution of this strap matter.
(6) I would quietly instruct the employees at the boutique that if you ever try to order anything directly from them again, then they should either (1) politely refer you to me, or (2) politely but firmly and clearly explain to you BEFORE making the sale that NOTHING you purchase can be returned or exchanged under ANY circumstances (and we would always write that language on your receipts in the future, no matter how small the item).
(7) I would quietly ensure that we not invite you to any more Lange events (dinners, etc.) -- at least not in the near future.
I would take steps (6)-(7) because I would want to try to put a significant amount of "polite distance" between you and my brand, with the hopes that you would turn your purchasing power away from us and towards some other manufacturer while still feeling generally good about us (because we resolved the strap matter to your satisfaction, and that matter was your last transaction/encounter with us). I would feel this way because almost all customers who were truly upset about a store issue AND who appreciate the value of a long-term, mutually satisfying business relationship would ask to first speak with the manager before taking the extraordinary step of publicly airing their complaints (which takes MUCH more time than a quick conversation with the manager). The rare customer who chooses to publicly air his dissatisfaction on the Internet BEFORE AND INSTEAD OF taking the simple, customary step of first speaking with the boutique manager is one of those rare customers who are not worth keeping. Why? Because from a sensible, practical business perspective, this small class of customers is too risky. They often cost us more business than we get from them. Only a very desperate business would want or need to incur the risk of carrying a customer who posts his dissatisfaction on the Internet before giving the business a reasonable chance to fix the situation, and we're not that desperate.
Would that be an understandable resolution based upon the circumstances? And would you find it fair, though perhaps not ideal?
[Note that I made no mention of Lange's inviting you to "extravagant dinners in various cities," that "in HK, most places don't accept exchanges," and that you never purchased anything from this boutique other than this one strap that you want to return after using it. I'm deliberately avoiding those additional facts because I'm trying to see this through a purely dispassionate economic perspective. I'm not considering factors as goodwill and gratitude that also play a significant role in business relationships.]
Again, I'm viewing all of this from my US-based lens. Cultural differences may play a HUGE role in my current reaction vs. how I might react if we were from the same culture. Also, I mean no offense to you, and I am not judging you in any personal way (I'd bet you're a really nice, interesting guy!). I'm just giving you my honest reaction/response to the facts that you presented as viewed through my lens. And lastly, thanks again for posting this and for starting this conversation -- I think it's really interesting! -- and I wish you the best of luck however it turns out.
PS -- If you want a custom-made strap for MUCH less money than a genuine Lange strap costs, PM me and I can give you a brand recommendation. I have a small wrist too, and Lange "standard short" straps are far too big. You may be better off with a different strap maker. And hey, if you ever visit Boston, I'd be happy to show you some non-Lange short straps on Lange watches.
So with that being said, let's pretend that I am the manager of your Lange boutique (or I am the Lange regional manager in that part of the world). And let's pretend that I just learned about your situation by reading this PuristsPro forum thread. So now I know what your expectations were, and how you handled the situation when your expectations were not met. If I have the facts correct, then here is how I would respond as the boutique or regional manager:
(1) I would apologize to you profusely, politely, and personally.
(2) I would immediately order a replacement strap, short length with contrasting stitching, at no additional cost to you. I would have it sent to you or offer to put on at the boutique at no charge -- your choice. I would include a small Lange gift -- a Lange baseball cap or something -- with the strap.
(3) I would insist that you keep the old black strap, as a courtesy -- no need to return it to us.
(4) I would insist that if you ever need to purchase any other Lange timepieces or accessories, then you should contact me directly, so that I can personally provide you with the attention and service that you expect and deserve.
(5) I would do all of the above -- (1)-(4) -- to ensure that you were 100% satisfied with the final resolution of this strap matter.
(6) I would quietly instruct the employees at the boutique that if you ever try to order anything directly from them again, then they should either (1) politely refer you to me, or (2) politely but firmly and clearly explain to you BEFORE making the sale that NOTHING you purchase can be returned or exchanged under ANY circumstances (and we would always write that language on your receipts in the future, no matter how small the item).
(7) I would quietly ensure that we not invite you to any more Lange events (dinners, etc.) -- at least not in the near future.
I would take steps (6)-(7) because I would want to try to put a significant amount of "polite distance" between you and my brand, with the hopes that you would turn your purchasing power away from us and towards some other manufacturer while still feeling generally good about us (because we resolved the strap matter to your satisfaction, and that matter was your last transaction/encounter with us). I would feel this way because almost all customers who were truly upset about a store issue AND who appreciate the value of a long-term, mutually satisfying business relationship would ask to first speak with the manager before taking the extraordinary step of publicly airing their complaints (which takes MUCH more time than a quick conversation with the manager). The rare customer who chooses to publicly air his dissatisfaction on the Internet BEFORE AND INSTEAD OF taking the simple, customary step of first speaking with the boutique manager is one of those rare customers who are not worth keeping. Why? Because from a sensible, practical business perspective, this small class of customers is too risky. They often cost us more business than we get from them. Only a very desperate business would want or need to incur the risk of carrying a customer who posts his dissatisfaction on the Internet before giving the business a reasonable chance to fix the situation, and we're not that desperate.
Would that be an understandable resolution based upon the circumstances? And would you find it fair, though perhaps not ideal?
[Note that I made no mention of Lange's inviting you to "extravagant dinners in various cities," that "in HK, most places don't accept exchanges," and that you never purchased anything from this boutique other than this one strap that you want to return after using it. I'm deliberately avoiding those additional facts because I'm trying to see this through a purely dispassionate economic perspective. I'm not considering factors as goodwill and gratitude that also play a significant role in business relationships.]
Again, I'm viewing all of this from my US-based lens. Cultural differences may play a HUGE role in my current reaction vs. how I might react if we were from the same culture. Also, I mean no offense to you, and I am not judging you in any personal way (I'd bet you're a really nice, interesting guy!). I'm just giving you my honest reaction/response to the facts that you presented as viewed through my lens. And lastly, thanks again for posting this and for starting this conversation -- I think it's really interesting! -- and I wish you the best of luck however it turns out.
PS -- If you want a custom-made strap for MUCH less money than a genuine Lange strap costs, PM me and I can give you a brand recommendation. I have a small wrist too, and Lange "standard short" straps are far too big. You may be better off with a different strap maker. And hey, if you ever visit Boston, I'd be happy to show you some non-Lange short straps on Lange watches.
Thank you for those thoughts
Thank you for your thoughts CR.
Interestingly, I was initially going to contact Lange people directly. Then decided to go with the forum to get some thoughts. I actually expected most of the responses, not really surprising.
I think brands should really think about the Internet as a medium that people would use. So their actions too should take into account how something like this could really affect things.
I'm not here to negotiate the strap. I'm actually ok with the situation now. I'll keep the all black strap and perhaps get another contrasting stitch one once my feelings blow over. The fact that a client of this sort (me) who purchased a classy product should be careful about Internet usage and in doing so, the brand would classify me as "risky", sounds incredulous to me. If they choose to do that, fine with me, but I'll be further disappointed.
I didn't ask to be invited to those events. I was and still am profusely thankful they did and I did my part in telling those events to anyone who would listen and performed ample amount of marketing for the brand. My love for the brand would have been the same. But those who say I should somehow forgive this situation because of those events isn't something I agree with.
My feeling is very strong in that I'm the customer. I deal with customers for a large enterprise. I constantly remind myself and my folks that no matter how right we think we are, clients ultimately pay us money, support our business, refer more business so we have to suck it up.
Could I have asked to speak to the manager and negotiated? Sure. But I chose not to and was disappointed that I was expected to. Is that entitlement? Perhaps. Probably is actually. For me to spend this sort of money I want to be treated a certain way. That is all.
I respect all the responses. But non have changed my mind yet... 
BTW, I actually happen to be in Boston next week... maybe we end up meeting.
All the best.
Hugh
I sent you a PM several days ago about meeting in Boston. [nt]
No message body This message has been edited by CR on 2013-05-05 15:59:52
CR simply customer satisfaction should be something like that especially for luxury brands [nt]
No message body
I would talk to the head of HK, and see what's really going on
Hope you get your case solved!
Tschuss
Stephen
Your post reminds me that I've a free Lange strap I haven't collected from the retailer
I am not trying to add salt into the wound.
I always believe that you have to "give" first before you can "take".
To echo what Horogasm said, don't let this trivial incident spoil your hobby.
Regards
Ling