Comments:
Proof of Origin Certificate Authenticity
I need help. I got a good offer on a pre-owned Langematik SAX-O-MAT
(308-027). It will be my first Lange so i am very excited. 
Unfortunately, the watch only comes with the box (the long one) and "Proof Of Origin" certificate. Are these good enough? The certificate looks authentic from the picture but i am not sure how easy or difficult it is to make a fake copy of a ALS letterhead paper. It has the signature of Claudia Sawodni and signed in November 2016.
The watch itself looks okay and real (comparing it with pictures on the internet and in watch forums). The dealer is very professional and very patient in answering my questions.
Thanks, shonex
Unfortunately, the watch only comes with the box (the long one) and "Proof Of Origin" certificate. Are these good enough? The certificate looks authentic from the picture but i am not sure how easy or difficult it is to make a fake copy of a ALS letterhead paper. It has the signature of Claudia Sawodni and signed in November 2016.
The watch itself looks okay and real (comparing it with pictures on the internet and in watch forums). The dealer is very professional and very patient in answering my questions.
Thanks, shonex
I’m no expert & more Purists will surely pitch in...
Ask serial number & validate with ALS AD.
I also read, ALS releases the list of lost/stolen watch serial numbers - you might double check with them.
Good luck with your purchase - post a wrist shot soon !
Best,
mahesh.,
I also read, ALS releases the list of lost/stolen watch serial numbers - you might double check with them.
Good luck with your purchase - post a wrist shot soon !
Best,
mahesh.,
Hello Shonex and warm welcome here
Do you have a picture of this certificate?
It is suppose to come in a “grey (Lange colour) box” with the following elements written both in German and English on the letter.
- Name of the model series,
- Its reference,
- The reference of the calibre,
- Mouvement number,
- Case number
The signature of A. Claudia Sawodni who works for the customer service of the brand and a date.
On the top of the letter, you have “Zertificate” and “Certificate” written in big gold capital letters and above as heading A. Lange & Söhne written in capital letters.
As Mahesh already written, you can ask to Lange if this watch has been declared stolen or not.
Best wishes
Alkiro
It is suppose to come in a “grey (Lange colour) box” with the following elements written both in German and English on the letter.
- Name of the model series,
- Its reference,
- The reference of the calibre,
- Mouvement number,
- Case number
The signature of A. Claudia Sawodni who works for the customer service of the brand and a date.
On the top of the letter, you have “Zertificate” and “Certificate” written in big gold capital letters and above as heading A. Lange & Söhne written in capital letters.
As Mahesh already written, you can ask to Lange if this watch has been declared stolen or not.
Best wishes
Alkiro
Thanks Aikiro
It ticks all your checkboxes. Attached is a screenshot (had to grey out some parts, sorry).
It seems perfect for me
Whatever will be your decision, take your time.
The Sax-O-Mat is a really nice watch. I hope you’ll reach your Lange grail.
Best wishes
Alkiro
The Sax-O-Mat is a really nice watch. I hope you’ll reach your Lange grail.
Best wishes
Alkiro
Not sure if this matters to you...
You mentioned that it "comes with the box (the long one)." Can you post a picture of that inner leather long box in an open position? Also, can you provide the first 3 digits of the caseback serial number?
Lange changed its box style in the early 2000s, but the original box for this watch should not be long and rectangular. It should be a square box, and the black leather inner box (with cream interior) should have a single brass latch. There should also be an outer cardboard box (blue/gray color) and an outer cardboard sleeve (same color) that fit snugly around the inner box. That inner square box looked something like this:
[If you're interested ... The size of the original (almost) square box would have depended upon when the watch was made: The very first boxes were smaller because the only papers were a small paper warranty card and a small instruction booklet, which both fit inside the inner box below the watch holder, which lifts up. Shortly after Richemont acquired Lange, Lange introduced a black leather wallet to hold the papers. That black leather wallet rested above the black leather inner box, and so the combination required a slightly larger (taller) outer cardboard box and sleeve -- and the watch older was no longer removable because nothing was stored beneath it.]
When you say it comes with the "long" box, two long, skinny boxes come to mind. The first is a long, skinny leather box with no brass latches. That box, with no brass latches, originally came with the old 1815s (which were the least expensive Langes at that time). Here is a pic of that box:
The pouch inside the lid of this box held the papers. Lange used the larger square box with one brass latch for the "middle-range" models such as these Langematiks and the Lange 1, and Lange used an even larger box with 2 brass latches for the "highest-range" models such as the Datograph and the Tourbillon Pour Le Merite.
The second long box that comes to mind is a Lange service box, which is a long, skinny cardboard box with grey foam inside and no leather anywhere. Lange uses them to ship watches back to customers and dealers after servicing. This photo shows the difference between the box just above (old 1815 box) and the service box:
This sounds like a watch that comes with no original boxes or papers, which is totally fine as long as that is reflected in the price. The "Proof of Origin" from Lange is nice to have, but as Mahesh says, I would still contact Lange with the full caseback serial number just to confirm that it wasn't stolen in the past year.
Congrats and good luck with it, if you go through with it -- and please do post pics of the box if you get a chance!
[I realized that this is FAR more than you wanted to know and that you might care about right now -- that you're just trying to figure out whether all is okay with this pending purchase. I'm just adding the details for general interest/knowledge.]
I truly appreciate the info. :-)
Hi CR,
Wow, this is really good info. Thanks for sharing and for taking the time to explain. Am truly grateful.
I only the attached picture. First 3 digits are: 114. Based on your description, the one in my picture is the service box.
I am still waiting for the response from ALS. I will keep you all posted.
Thanks again, shonex
Happy to help. Actually...
... the box in your photo is not a service box. The service box has no leather -- it is just cardboard with a foam interior. The box in your photo is a regular Lange sales box, but it was made recently, in the last few years. These newer long boxes are different from the old 1815 boxes because the newer boxes have no pouch inside the lid. That's because all the papers are now stored outside the inner box, which is why the outer cardboard boxes in your picture are so much taller than the short inner leather box. The extra room is necessary to store the (bigger, newer style) papers that do not exist for the watch you are looking at (which originally came with much smaller, fewer papers).
The watch you are considering was a relatively early Lange, likely sold around 1996. Lange's caseback numbers started at 110000 in 1994, so this watch was around their 4000th-5000th piece sold. I'm guessing the movement number is approximately 4xxx. So we know that the box in your photo was manufactured about 15 years after this watch was sold.
The watch you are considering was a relatively early Lange, likely sold around 1996. Lange's caseback numbers started at 110000 in 1994, so this watch was around their 4000th-5000th piece sold. I'm guessing the movement number is approximately 4xxx. So we know that the box in your photo was manufactured about 15 years after this watch was sold.
My bad...
It is the new box then. Hmm..It seems like the only thing i have then is the certificate and the watch. On the good side, A. Lange just got back to me and confirmed that the certificate is genuine and so seems the watch. Thanks again CR. I am actively checking chrono24 for ALS watches and when asking questions and validating the boxes, i cross check with this thread. Really helpful.
Really helpful.
Sure thing. Personally, if I were buying a Lange with no papers, and if I wanted a Lange box for it....
... I would probably look for one of those older Lange boxes -- the ones I described in my original post in which the outer cardboard box fits snugly around the inner leather box, with no extra space for external papers. Any later Lange box will have an outer box that is much larger than its inner box, and there will be a lot of empty space in between the inner and outer boxes where the (missing) papers would ordinarily go. That empty space would bother me, and I'd rather have no box than a totally incorrect box in that case. Continued good luck with your hunt!
Certificate is genuine!
Yep, it is genuine and ALS has confirmed. I must say, their service is amazing which makes me long for an ALS watch all the more.
While i waited, I've been looking as well for a preowned 1815 UP/DOWN platinum model,( 221.025). I found a few which are just a thousand or 2 (euro) more expensive than SAX-O-MAT. Both are small which is what I like. I like the 1815 model because it is only 36mm (i would have wanted a 35mm) compared to the 37mm Langematik. I do like the caseback of the latter though.
Now, i am torn. Good thing, i still have time to decide. Stay tuned.
While i waited, I've been looking as well for a preowned 1815 UP/DOWN platinum model,( 221.025). I found a few which are just a thousand or 2 (euro) more expensive than SAX-O-MAT. Both are small which is what I like. I like the 1815 model because it is only 36mm (i would have wanted a 35mm) compared to the 37mm Langematik. I do like the caseback of the latter though.
Now, i am torn. Good thing, i still have time to decide.
Stay tuned.