FabR
[Senior Patek Moderator]
26124
I can understand (and agree) Lange's movement finishing is very high quality, I don't think many people are questioning that, in either thread.
The reason of concern that I saw in the other thread is that when a brand makes the finishing of all of its components, visible and invisible, one of its main strengths, then people are naturally disappointed to find out that finishing, in reality, doesn't apply to *all* components. In Lange's partial defense back in the other thread, I looked at the page in their official site that discusses at length their finishing, and I wanted to confirm they were "technically" being truthful, since they seemed to refer only to the movement. Still, I believe that at least an honest sentence of what happens with the hands, which are quite a crucial part of the watch (!), would have helped.
But now, if this is the defense that they offer (?) after getting caught with a simple photo of the dial, it's just devastating. They are essentially not responsible for the hands of their watches because it's too small a brand (part A)? It's not "viable" (i.e., not economically convenient!) to "lose so many hands" (part B), even when people spend tens of thousands on their watches? And finally, they can't even guarantee a "proper functioning" of a critical part of their product (part C)?? I hope you agree this can't be real!
Again, I saw this thread quickly turning for the worse for Lange, which was the obvious outcome if we take that response as officially coming from the brand. That's why -- once again out of correctness towards all parties -- first thing that I asked you to confirm is whether the person that sent you that response is in any way speaking for the brand, because this can be easily implied from your post. Once again, I see you haven't answered yet, and I think you should clarify this point. Thanks! ;-)
An explanation regarding the finishing of the hands.
In respecting the anonymity of the person who responded to my request pertaining to the “unfinished” hands on some Lange watches, here is what I learned: Basically, the reasons behind the unfinished hands are quiet straightforward: A) Lange does not manuf...
+1! To give Lange the benefit of the doubt, it depends on who sent this information to the OP...
...but if it's some executive with authority to speak officially on behalf of the brand, then this statement obviously makes the issue much worse. For as long as Lange sells watches that include hands, all under its name, it goes without saying they are r...
Finishing the underside of the hands is not industry standards.
VC, Patek, AP... they all don’t finish the underside of their hands- how’s that ok for them? Even the Geneva Seal doesn’t require the underside to be finished. Otherwise the movement finishing is of the highest standard especially compared to PP, VC and t...
I can understand (and agree) Lange's movement finishing is very high quality, I don't think many people are questioning that, in either thread.
The reason of concern that I saw in the other thread is that when a brand makes the finishing of all of its components, visible and invisible, one of its main strengths, then people are naturally disappointed to find out that finishing, in reality, doesn'...
Its very clear that Lange is referring to the movement.
There shouldn't be a confusion as they were technically and explicitly referring to the movement - if anything, their explanation or what I got from them makes perfect sense to me. Economically not viable is a very sound and honest reasoning, not sure why...
I think you hit the nail on the head FabR
Technically and realistically speaking, Lange is right to not finsh the hands. The problem lies with the romantic (false) assumption that ALS finishes all components, visible or invisible, being shattered by this little detail. Further, I do not think the...
Here’s the thing though
Lange has always made it clear the all parts being finished applies to the movement - there’s no confusion there, if we decide to apply it to other parts then that’s not their fault really.
I wasn't going to reply, as I think everyone should have their opinion, and this really isn't about Lange's level of movement finishing, or a comparison with Patek, AP, or anyone else.
However, I was searching how this whole discussion originated, and look who started it less than two months ago: www.watchprosite.com Now, all of a sudden, Lange "has always made it clear", "there shouldn't be a confusion", or it's even "indisputa...
I didn’t have an “epiphany” - it was a discussion and I reached my own conclusions which is so openly shared.
I am the one who initiated it because I believe in transparency and I chose to chronicle my state of mind at every juncture, my critique for the brand in that they need to be open about this still stands. I just don't want anyone, including myself, to get...
Of course the robustness of the hands is important
But the argument that they come from a supplier is not valid in my eyes. Can you imagine Mercedes saying "oh yes, your ABS was faulty? That is coming from Bosch so not really our responsibility!"
Just to clarify: I am perfectly fine with the underside of my watch hands not to be polished
I understand the engineering requirements, the headaches, the additional cost that polishing on both sides would require
I think this is an apples to oranges comparison.
Also the hands are not faulty, the hands are finished as per industry standards. What we are talking about here is the underside that requires strong magnification to even notice.
Right ...
I'm a huge Lange fanboy and think it's not really a valid excuse given they are owned by Richemont. Yes, Lange might be small but they could surely pool resources and find a solution. If other brands can do it, so can they.
Richemont doesnt control Lange
or any of their other brands- think of it like a Canadian Federation. You have the Federal Gov. and then you have the provinces that have huge autonomy. Pooling resources is an easy word for us to use but Lange is a brand that was revived only 25 years ag...
Meh
I'm sure they have autonomy but what I'm getting at is that engineers at Lange / PD heads can probably call other companies owned by Richemont and solve this. If Grand Seiko can do it, so can Lange.
Who told you grand Seiko does it?
Grand Seiko does not finished the underside of their hands.
If the hands are too thin for finishing, is it not possible to increase the thickness and polish it down?
Looking forward to their official statement. The right thing to do is to start finishing the hands from now on and retain the "king of finishing" title, I can imagine it is not that detrimental to overall costs. However, with a response like this, I think...
They are the King of Finishing.
For the price they offer the best package out of all the serially produced watches on the market today and they are super close to the indies.
I think there is still room for debate in terms of "king of finishing" among the top brands.
But if ALS decides to finish the underside of the hands from now on to pursue perfection, I think that will earn them massive respect from the community and elevate them into a class of its own.
How so?
Who from the big brands are finishing their movements to the same standard as Lange?
A bit lame excuse from a brand who wants to be on the top of the mountain.
I always valued the engineering part of Lange but I feel that they’re a bit overrated. Specially since Richemont took them over I feel that Lange died. Huge cases, shows engineering abilities not watchmaking. When they’re able to do it in a 38-40mm case, ...
I believe so -
but I’m sure you understand the company would like to have one official statement as opposed to private conversations.
The "polished hands" discussion...
... reminds me about how each of us has our own idiosyncrasies. It's interesting and amusing to read about these things. It's part of what makes this hobby fun for me. For example, in another recent thread, several people said they wouldn't own a Zeitwerk...
EXACTLY!
thank you for pointing these things out- for some reason people are so hard on Lange when their peers dont come close to them in terms of finishing/value.
What about Lange's relationship with rose gold vs. white gold?...
This is another association that I have to this discussion. I always perceived Lange's (older) rose gold cases to be "lesser" and their white gold cases to be "greater" when compared with many industry peers. Here is why: RG: As those who've followed Lang...
Yup I remember that.
I never looked at the RG as inferior per se- I just felt the fully polished case seemed rather unattractive. Whatever their reasoning may be I hated it lol
Yes, I know Lange revised that movement a bit, and I hope you love your new ZW!
I have an older Striking Time and recall discussing the slight "jump" with a Lange watchmaker at an event shortly after I got it. We also listened to the difference in chiming tones between the PT and WG cases. Whenever I think about the slight jump/prelo...
Ok, for me this is quite simple.
The reason why I pay for a ALS watch the amount of a (luxury) car is not least because of the story behind that ALS produces its watches at highest possible standards and therefore my/our („romantic“) assumption that this manufacturer finishes ALL compone...
I am curious, what would be an example of an ALS explanation that would be acceptable?
This is interesting, and I enjoyed reading your car story and your thoughts about that, Thomas! Personally, I find it helpful to think of Lange as primarily a company that finishes and manufacturers watch movements. To the best of my knowledge, except per...
Thank you CR
for your nice reply and reading my thoughts. And I hope you are wrong with your penultimate sentence.... Let’s see what will come out in this case. Best Thomas
Not convinced- this sounds like a Cisco product manager response-
Admit and correct- We do not need rounded undersides like the upper part, just not rough cuts with marks from the plate cutting machines-Just take responsibility-don't send the ticket on to the supplier-you are such a great brand!
