amanico
[JLC Moderator]
361825
Nice write up, Jerome
Now we'll see if it will be enough to avoid the problems of reliability seen on the recent watches...
To say all, I think that the 2d reason is more evident than the first one.
When a brand like PP comunnicates from decades about " EXCELLENCE ", it doesn't have to call it Geneva SS or PP Seal,, it just have to do all its possible to reach this goal of excellence.
So, to me, pure marketting campaign...
Best,
Nicolas
Basel 2009: The new Patek Philippe Seal of overall quality!
The subject of the drop of the Geneva Seal by Patek Philippe has been out for months now. It is now official and we know more about what is to come, even if not all yet. The criteria of the Geneva Seal were observed by Patek Philippe for more than a centu...
Aesthetically, I'm not fond of the new seal's logo design...
I think the new seal looks way too much Rolls-Royce-esque. Then again, there aren't many ways to make such a seal, you can't do two symmetrical Ps back to back (it'd look like the Plaza Hotel New York logo). I can't say yet that I think this new seal is a...
On the other side...
Hi Patrick, Of course you are free to like the new Seal design or not and the idea of a PP Seal or not! I don't dislike the new Seal (I still have to see it live) and find it quite modern and nicely simply looking! On the fact of having a PP Seal, of cour...
I am only voicing my indifference......with a counter point
Geneva Seal or Patek Seal.......I honestly do not care as long as the quality of the finish is there. There are several watch companies that I admire and the, looks, quality and finish of their calibers (as well a complete watches overall) is superb - and...
Ahhh, we bring out the greatest weapon against Patek... Lange...
Philippe Dufour, the famous watchmaker owns only a few watches; a few vintage LeCoultres, some Philippe Dufour model prototypes he made himself, and a Lange Datograph. I agree, if Lange were in the province of Geneva, I am sure they would qualify for the ...
in complete agreement with you milos,
To me the PP seal is no more than an evolving Company( PP ) mission statement of their aims and values.To me the "body" is not independent enough.And as Milos states, I love Lange, seal or no seal.
absolutely right! - when you make a watch like that ...
With the Datograph, the finish is so superb that there is no need for any seal. When you're not Lange, you need a seal to remind the customer that you have *one of* the best finishes out there. If you see a Geneva seal or now a Patek seal, you know that y...
The finish is indeed superb
Hi, The finish of the Datograph is indeed superb, but can I ask you why you think that it is superior to what Patek Philippe makes, for instance in the 5070? Not that I have a definitive answer, but as a subject of discussion of course! Cheers Dje
Certainly but....
Hi, As I see it the problem of Patek Philippe is to leave a Seal and position itself above! So if they want to compare to a Seal they feel they need another Seal, their Seal in this case! Not for us WIS or addicted collectors that know the brand very well...
Other obvious reasons?
The most obvious reason, logically speaking, to opt out of the Geneva Seal is the requirement that the movements be constructed in Geneva! Will this new PP seal have the same requirement? Or is there a long term strategy to move from Geneva, for which we ...
Just suppositions or informations....
Hi, I doubt that Patek Philippe is planning to leave Geneva as they are building more in Plan Les Ouates! They've been trying for years to concentrate all their production at the same place, I doubt to see them move! Regarding the evolution of the Geneva ...
Reminds me somewhat of the QF
Except without any sort of published standards or openness. In reality it is pretty much the same as the JLC 1000 hours seal, a marketing slogan based on some in-house testing with a cool logo that they tell us means quality. So I wonder who pushed PP ove...
Only time will tell...............
What the "Watch World" and its customers will make of this announcement. It should come as no surprice to any of us, as it had been rumoured for so long. I remember being told about it early last year.
Good questions Aaron
Hi Aaron, Is it Cartier, or Frederic Constant, or Vacheron Constantin, or Chopard, or Roger Dubuis? Any other on the list? Cheers Dje This message has been edited by Dje on 2009-04-04 14:48:04
The key for PP is the Purity of the Comite.....
dje, All the reasons are rational and acceptable for the implementation of the PP seal. Some of the push may have come from Chopard L.U.C. with the Qualite Fleurier seal. LUC also uses the Geneva seal for some of it's production but found that it was not ...
Thank you for sharing Melvyn
Hi Melvyn, Interesting points you share. The Chopard explanation may be quite true indeed and the Patek Philippe decision played quite gentlemanly! Let's wait about this PuristS' spirit in this Comite! Can't wait to know more! Cheers Dje
Nice write up, Jerome
Now we'll see if it will be enough to avoid the problems of reliability seen on the recent watches... To say all, I think that the 2d reason is more evident than the first one. When a brand like PP comunnicates from decades about " EXCELLENCE ", it doesn'...
Of course there is marketing
Hi Nicolas, Of course there is marketing! It is just efficient because this marketing is based on a true commitment and experience of quality. Regarding quality problems, I suppose Patek Philippe has some like the others, but do we have any evidence to sa...
If
If the PP seal is used: 1. For all PP watches and 2. Only exclusively for PP watches than it has no difference from Patek Philippe "brand" or "logo". The seal would just mean that all watches are built to internal factory standards. IMHO, no such need for...
If you know the historical spirit of Rolls-Royce....
Hi, If you know the historical spirit of Rolls-Royce, for instance "Perfection is made of small things but perfection is no small thing", or "take the best you can find and make it even better", you'll realize that indeed Patek Philippe is today very clos...
Well said.... but....
the reason the "stamping" of the PP seal is better executed than the Geneva Seal is because, I believe, the PP seal is NOT STAMPED on the plate. In fact, it should be made by something like Computer Numerical Controlled Machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
Agree...but
I agree with you that: 1. Hand execution is more desirable than machining. 2. The Geneva Seal design is more beautiful. Looks more old-school flag-like. More details. The PP seal looks like the logo some mega brands have. 3. Collectors will love to have t...
RE: "One thing for sure, the "stamping" of the PP seal on the watch is definitely better "
Pat, you example shows without any doubt one of the most perfect PP seals they could find for the PP seal marketing brochure. OTOH the Geneva seal you found has sure has a lot to be desired for I guess I lucked out.... 2 of 3 Geneva seals on my PP watches...
I must say
I must say that the seals found on your watches are very impressive. The photo I got was from the 3919 review by John: http://www.tp178.com/jd/patek-3919/index.html Quote: Ironically, the Geneva Seal was poorly executed, with ill-defined edges and an unev...
No!
Hi Patrick, AFAIK the Patek Philippe Seal is going to be reserved for Patek Philippe watches. The Seal is different from the brand through the Comite that is supposed to warranty that the quality is there. Plus you should not forget that a Seal means comm...
This is great news.
There are numerous criticisms mentioned including the possibility of bias, elitism, advertising/marketing hype, et al. But how can science, technology and passion move forward without one group within choosing to take that very step into the unknown. I be...
Rolls Royce is by far the best marque in motoring and
Patek Philippe is by far the best marque in watches!!! well IMHO....I personally like the new PP seal....gets to the point don't you think? R's Sid
Excellent point, thank you!
Hi, What we all want is excellence in quality, advances in horology! That's quite nice to see Patek Philippe take the lead! Cheers Dje
pp seal
hi, i think it has been a bold action from pp to change the seal to pp seal and leave the geneva seal. i tthink every patek watch has sort of a pp seal sinse is made with the best materials available and also under impacable precision. i have always been ...
i just felt more "secure" if you wish with the geneva seal.
Hi, You wrote "I just felt more "secure" if you wish with the Geneva Seal." That's the whole point for the need for a new seal! A Seal is a warranty, a commitment! If they don't follow the Geneva Seal anymore, they need another one! Regarding the old watc...
The PP Seal includes a timekeeping standard.
If I understand it correctly, that standard is a rigorous one. I consider that meaningful, although other than that I tend to think the whole exercise is being carried out for the purposes of preventing other Geneva Seal manufacturers from profiting by th...
no need for a new seal
I share the sentiment that there's really no need for a new seal. Actually, PP should stand behind their products and the PP signature on the dial / movement should be sufficient to guarantee the quality of their products. I am worried that they are now d...
Don't worry
Hi, Apparently the new Patek Philippe Seal definition of service will concern all watches coming back for service, particularly for those being less than 30 years old! Hopefully you'll get better sevice than up to now! Cheers Dje
PP need not use the seal to show its commitment.
It is just like you do not need to hang your PhD certificate on your neck to show to the world that you are a learned person. What we need from PP is their fine execution on their watches, good and speedy after sale service and no nonsense on marketing th...
It depends on your customers....
Hi, You don't show your Phd certificate to your old customers, but new customers need something to trust you! Patek Philippe has decided to show its Seal as a commitment! Cheers Dje
People buy PP because of PP either blindly or otherwise
Hi, New customers will not open the case and confirm PP seal before purchase. Regards Ling
Indeed but....
Hi, Of course new customers will not open the case but…… …….you have more and more watches with see-through back! J …….trust PP to communicate about the seal, what they are already doing with a new advertising campaign!...
"Subtle" coincidence ?
The juxtaposition of the two "P's" was of course first seen on the rotor of the calibre 12-600. Whether it was a coincidence at the time (as now with the new "seal) remains a question but the similarity with the famous Rolls Royce emblem is unquestionable...
Nice tree John, but you're forgetting the forest behind IMVHO!
Hi John, I understand your point John, but I think that the creation of the Patek Philippe Seal is a way to conceptualize and summarize the way Patek Philippe wants to create, produce, sell and service watches. It is not going to revolutionize the PP orga...
it's just another logo
Hi Dje, I hope that you are right and that this is a legitimate effort by Patek to recommit themselves to the highest quality standards, but I just can't see it in that light. Companies redefine themselves all the time by clarifying or rewriting their mis...
"Patek Philippe no longer meets Geneva Seal standards ?"
...was the initial response my spouse had upon hearing the news about Patek's self coronation. Perhaps some others will come to a similar conclusion.
