Patek Philippe

Some time ago, Patek Philippe announced their plans to close about 30% of all their dealers worldwide. Moderator Patrick_y explores in an unprecedented article that's geared towards dealers as well as watch collectors, how dealers fearing closure can impr...  

I am glad my AD is pretty much everything you have mentioned here if not more. Very much in safe hands. Suppose we sometimes take it for granted the positive influence of our ADs on us the clients. Not once I’ve been pressured to buy something I don’t lik... 

Does your dealer have a good knowledge about the mechanics? And the entire staff is well versed about the mechanical details about watches? Then that would be a rare thing! Anyone in your dealer certified by the FHH with any of the three levels of certifi... 

In this part of the world, being a country with a small population, I am guessing the entire operation is smaller than say larger cities. We have a 7th generation family business representing the brand and they do represent the brand with pride. Not all s... 

It's like a fine restaurant, they want to have a Certified Sommelier on the team. They should take the FHH Certification for watch sales professionals. That'll be a future quality standard for the industry. Sounds like I should move to Kiwi land!

I don’t really know if they’ve done a formal qualification. But they really are best at what they do.

If one naturally knows everything, what's a 2 hour test? It's like if I happen to already know how to be a surgeon, why not go to the medical board and get the official certification - especially if they already work in a jewelry store. The test doesn't r... 

I have a funny story to share, I will just avoid mentioning the place, by charity... Best, Nicolas

The three Patek Philippe owned boutiques; Paris, London, and Geneva are definitely well run. Geneva has perhaps the best Patek Philippe sales individual in the world, Mr. Wang - whose knowledge of both modern and vintage Patek Philippe timepieces rivals a... 

Can't wait to hear more! Need an update on your Alpine and how the family is doing too! Take care mon ami.

I will say the first thought that came to mind within the first few paragraphs is that the largest (and big corporate owned) PP dealer near me meets none of these standards. From what I see it’s purely a volume play and in a market where selling a Patek (... 

We'd really have the chops to run a well run AD! Although in NYC the costs are so great, and the market is so saturated already... There are no geographical locations left to open a franchise... Mid town has too many dealers already, downtown perhaps? And... 

All great points and I can't believe how bad NYC AD's are! While I'm not sure there's room for a another Patek AD in NYC, if Patek creates the space I though we could have one that out services and out competes the rest... easily. I've never had a good ex... 

Fastwong, you know what you're talking about! Geneva, Paris, and London... The three Salons... Yes, they're very expensive to operate. But they really give the Sterns a lot of control over the brand and the customer experience. NYC, being such a large mar... 

I don't think WOS even staffs their PP section, I imagine they just show up for appointments. Wempe is hit or miss. Time Machine was okay when my aunt used to work in the PP section and Nicholas Cage still had $ to blow Worst experience so far has been th... 

The retail world has become spoiled. It used to look like this, people would wander in, without an appointment. The salesperson wouldn't know if the client was serious or just killing time. Yet, the hardworking and knowledgeable salesperson gives a thorou... 

They should stop employing people who have worked in watch industry and train them. There are lot of people who have great watch knowledge and do not BS about wish list.

The relative significance of a family owned AD is not something I would have ever considered.

Patek Philippe really wants a jewelry store staff that has little turnover who has worked with their clients for years and are on a first-name basis with their clients. "Hello ArmisT, how are you and the family doing? Say hello to your daughter and your n... 

When you say family owned AD, the main/only one that comes to mind is Govberg, only cause I’ve seen pics with his young boys who are being groomed for the family business. I guess PP’s Stern family and LVs Arnault family are all same model but on brand si... 

You're absolutely right, jewelers are in a special position, they know the kids age, graduation, and big celebrations within the family. So it's only natural for a jeweler to maintain that relationship with a family through generations. Arnault's empires ... 

3000 words! What a long article! Thanks for sticking it out!

And - as you point out yourself - much of this don't only apply to PP AP's, but equally well to AP's of other brands - and indeed in other branches. The intellectual level of this article as well as many other posts, is what holds this forum above others ... 

I could've done a bit more editing. But the problem is that with these super long articles, the editing takes even longer than the initial article. After it was published, I still saw some word inefficiencies, a double entendre, and a few small detractors... 

Returrning to the subjects at hand, I yet again share your thoughts. Of course Lange want to have representatives that can explain what makes Lange special. But it will be interesting to follow this in the future. In this way they do (hopefully) get sales... 

The boutique idea is about control. Lange is going to shift to a mostly all boutique sales model. There will be very few ADs left if any. The boutiques are a VERY HIGH COST and FINANCIALLY RISKY endeavor. Obviously a multi-brand jewelry store is more effi... 

It's a brand I like very much (and own a pair), because of an AD geographically close by. But there will not be a boutique close. So probably no more Langes for me. And I'm not the only one in this position. Each boutique will probably on average sell mor... 

Shopping is about going into town and making a purchase. Imagine someone in USA... A doctor in Arkansas has to fly to New York or Miami to go buy a Lange... So at least you're in Europe where everything is relatively close by. But yes, I understand where ...  

This is a cool clock from Around Five. This Miki Eleta creation features race horses and a randomizer ensures a different horse wins almost every time. This one is from Dalibor Farny ...  

Cool and impressive clocks.

The Dalibor Farny and the Around Five clocks are affordable and lots of fun. The Miki Eletas are in the 1-3 million Swedish Krona range - the future Philippe Dufour of clocks. The Roland Iten belt buckles are around 300,000 Swedish Krona and up and he's d... 

The Miki Eleta horse race is out of this world (and out of my financial means). Truly impressive. The Around Five clock I've been looking at and thinking about. I like the way it presents the time! Among more classical in style, but very interesting mecha... 

I don't own one. I feel they're getting really expensive, and they're finicky - they can't be placed near vents nor near anything with even the slightest vibration. The balance wheel is fairly large, which means it takes a little more to shock the clock, ... 

Miki Eleta is a real guy. Nothing over the top. But real. Genuine. Nothing flashy. He once took me to lunch, in his garden. We foraged our own berries, mixed them in yogurt, he started a little fire in a fire pit surrounded with rocks, put on a metal grat... 

Who knows, maybe you partially inspired this advice! You definitely deserve some credit!

A great read. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for taking the time to comment. With respect to Vacheron Constantin - they too are closing a lot of doors. Sometimes indiscriminately.

While I don't have much to add to your detailed list of suggestions to ADs and collectors alike, this reminds me that, in Math, one of the first things we teach students is the potentially big difference between a "necessary" and a "sufficient" condition ... 

There are some hard requirements to be a Patek Philippe dealer - a failure in these hard requirements results in MAJOR POINTS LOST, and will likely mean that their franchisee status will be in jeopardy. There are some requirements where there is some flex... 

Even more scary for me though is that your reply implies that...I might also be considered a journalist! ;-))) But while I have admittedly received an incredible amount of love from Patek for many years, my only scented candles recently came from one of t...  

I have so many scented candles... And many of them seem to be from a brand called "Mizensir" which is a brand that Vacheron Constantin and Patek Philippe both use for their scented candles. I also don't use candles in my home as my home's Swiss air purifi... 

I agree, especially on the part about how clients should be treated as extended family. The moment the relationship feels transactional, one can forget about brand loyalty.

Thank you for your kind words. You mentioned something that's super important. And I want to take it down the rabbit hole at a different angle; Patek Philippe also knows that many of the clients are loyal to Patek Philippe and not necessarily to the autho... 

Folks with the potential for future spending, such as undergraduates with keen interest in watches, but no financial capability to indulge in watches at the moment are more often than not ignored. A pity, really.

I'd say that's a little tiny bit harsh. Many salespeople are not 100% certain they'll be in the game in the long run. Thus, if they see someone who says "I'm not ready to buy now, but my ship may come in 2-3 years from now and I'll buy that $200,000 Bregu... 

The scenario I described is utopian. Allow me to share my personal experience. When I was an undergraduate, I had the audacity to request to check out Langes at a local AD. I made it clear I couldn't afford it, but was fascinated by the brand. The salespe... 

I have to admit, I had a similar experience. When I was an undergraduate, I too had the audacity to check out Langes. And the subsequent catalogue did fuel my passion for watches!

Such experience does not take much from the AD, but goes a long way. Conversely, a snobbish sales attitude would ruin the chances of future purchases.

Staff need to make their numbers and fair play to sell whatever they can however they need to do it or get fired.... But a brand owned boutique can serve a higher cause. There are only two Blancpain boutiques in the US. TWO! And the NYC one is awesome bec... 

Good salespeople want to go to the hot brands or the hot stores because they want to increase their earning potential and to maximize their effect. Today, a Master Sommelier doesn't want to work at a tiny restaurant with no critical acclaim. A Master Somm... 

For PP, when the product already sells itself and there's not enough inventory for a good sales person to sell, maybe it's a moot point? Maybe they've passed some tipping point where their talent is wasted like a som at a restaurant with an empty wine cel... 

The salesperson would probably interpret the woman as rude and silly. She's interrupting. And only to ask a really silly question with an obvious answer. Hannibal Lecter would definitely consider her rude. Salespeople have been spoiled lately and are defi... 

I shudder to think how the situation would deteriorate when there is a surge of rich but unsophisticated consumers....

Starting in 2008/2009, was just as the time the Japanese really started to slow down buying luxury goods. But no problem, the Chinese more than made up for it. Despite the 2008/9 financial crisis worldwide, the Chinese economy was well off and just coming... 

Certainly a new perspective given all the recent developments with Patek ADs…love reading this! Would be interesting to see how ADs will react to more stringent requirements from Patek after the auction of sealed watches this Spring in HK.

All the ADs worldwide got a sternly worded letter from Thierry Stern reminding them not to sell watches with the packaging. I don't know personally which AD did that, maybe it was an AD who was going to lose their franchise or already knew they were going... 

I personally made sure their name didn't appear here (and when it did, it promptly got removed), for our forum is obviously not the proper venue for a public trial. A decision on a matter as sensitive and consequential as terminating a dealership should s... 

Yes indeed, I have no opinion about this matter. And I didn't keep a close eye on this problem as I wasn't too concerned about this problem.

If only we were mechanical! Then we could really have no opinion!

So let's be happy that we're humans. Flaws, opinions, and all!

Very thoughtful in how the informational was provided and with a fun tone to keep it light. I am actually in awe with the knowledge you choose to share. Thanks and we are lucky to have you and this very special community and platform to share our passion.... 

Happy to share what I know with the platform.

This is a marvelous article indeed! However, when you stated at the end that there are several similar strategies from other watch brands, I have my doubts that these have the same high principles in mind as Patek Philippe. I would rather assume that Pate... 

You're quite right, other brands whom have undergone their retail transformation are not doing it for the same reasons as Patek Philippe. Lange for instance, having spoken with the Lange CEO about this, has decided that they are going to mostly leave mult... 

It's definitely not easy. But for the right person with that happy joyous outgoing personality, owning a watch and jewelry store and building long-term relationships with clients can be a very natural thing. But yes, it's difficult to find "naturals" in t... 

customers that lost their AD to transition to another AD

For clients that they have a relationship with, they do try to help with some transition. They basically offer to introduce the client to any dealer the client so chooses. This is done at mostly the regional level (at the distributor level) and not necess... 

Im talking 10-15 pateks with a long history at the previous AD such as Shreve in San Francisco that they are out in the cold. Curious who shared this with you ?

But there are a few exceptions. It's almost rare. But yes. When I said "For clients they have a relationship with..." the "They" refers to Patek Philippe at the distributor level. So Patek Philippe does help some clients whom they know very well with an i... 

how would you even get a relationship with them ? I guess only thru buying MR or rare handcrafts or making friends if you go on a factory visit

I've said too much already, but the clients at Shreve - may be the smartest people in the world in the tech and science space but buying watches is probably not their forte. The phrase "they don't know what they don't know" definitely applies nearly every... 

I am intrigued

As a consequence, collectors with no direct connection to the brand AND who've only been relying on a single AD for their purchases, are unfortunately left with very few viable options in the short run. It is just a fact of life, as sad as it is unsurpris... 

Yes. This is a very major part of the problem. Also, there are many others, let me present this logical scenario: "the significant clients" Dauster was mentioning are generally/mostly interested in "significant"watches and these significant and special pi... 

I arbitrarily defined March 30, 2022 as THE date after which it was no longer possible for the random collector to walk into a Patek Authorized Dealer and buy *some* watch. This date coincides with the announcement of the 2022 Collection at W&W --- a ... 

I think the essence is - if you really want to have a relationship with patek you will need deep pockets and a bit of luck to have the right relationships

The client will have to do the pursuing. But many of them go about it the wrong ways too. A lot of subtlety. And that subtlety is not well understood in Silicon Valley's new-to-watches clientele. Heck, it's even lost on the old to watches clientele.

Needless to say that friendly relationships and mutual respect, in watches like in much of life, are always paramount. But then, the way I view things, the rest should only be happiness and fun, since in the end this is just a hobby.....although the most ... 

Some of the most colorful people I've met are from the watch community. And I'm pleased to count you, my fellow FabR, amongst them!

I concur. I would even say it was before March 2022 in my experience. It was hard to even get a simple annual calendar. Perpetual calendars are generally slow to move too, since they're expensive, but those are even often sold out. Exactly. There are no g... 

Admittedly, my first non-Rare Handcraft Patek in MANY years.....but after seeing it at this summer's events, it was just too great looking and fun and modern not to humbly request one for myself! ...  

I'm wearing white pants today. And a linen shirt.

PS: I normally ALWAYS wear shirts (save when I play sports!), but these last few weeks are so hot that I'm....reverting to some Patek polos! Last night in a club in Portofino it was actually a nice surprise when someone recognized the logo and told me he'...  

Just happened to be walking in the breakfast room and happened to notice - I'm not in the habit of noticing what people are looking at on their phones. You look good in anything! I don't have any Patek Philippe polo shirts. Only hats. And I don't wear hat... 

...  

it's not like life can't go on without your AD

People go after these things like it's a blood sport. One person literally has said to me this is his most important objective, short of getting his daughter into a good college. I reminded him that there are other priorities, finding a good husband for h... 

I explained to the guy, who is just an acquaintance, that he needs to get over the fact that it's not going to happen. I told him, no Patek dealer is going to give you the opportunity to double your money by selling you a watch. I asked him, if you were a... 

Where else could those folks you mentioned, and countless others, invest their money for a (perceived) immediate return in the several hundred percentage points?? ;-) And obviously, people with access to the good watches at retail will end up receiving so... 

Either that or I must really look like a patsy who can be ordered around and told what to do. I wonder what gave that impression? Maybe I'm too nice of a guy in general. But to the woman in my example, for the amount of money she wanted for her Panerai, i... 

What I typically do when a conversation gets there with acquaintances or strangers is to be explicit that requests for watches (usually at retail) will kill the rest of the conversation, and that really does it usually (save for the occasional repeat offe... 

I've been lucky to have good relationships at some local ADs with great know how. Most of the sales persons i talk to have a watchmaker background. The mistakes you mentioned above they wont do, but i hear you and i have seen it with my own eyes! Again, t... 

Being in the part of Europe you're in, I think there's a slightly higher standard of excellence going on. But overall... There's a lot of issues... And when you consider a lot of the sales people are new to high horology and a lot of clients are new to hi... 

In my area there is a retailer who has been at the same location for 60 years family owned. They fit the description of a good Patek AD. Is there any way to acquire the brand into a new store? Likely not but I thought would ask. Currently they have many b... 

Soon your Patek AD should be getting FHH Certification for some of their staff members. FHH Certification is kind of a test for watch sales professionals to take. This test shows that they have a good understanding about watches; and there are three level... 

I do have a Patek AD but I have to fly there. It would be great if the local one would develop Patek but I don’t think that’s a possibility. Thank you very much for the informative post and response. Have a good weekend.

Wishing you a wonderful weekend as well! Thank YOU for your posts too! Looking forward to reading more of your comments!