Buying Watches at Auction: Buyer's Guide

patrick_y · 2021-09-02T01:24:24Z

Patrick_y exposes ethical concerns and vetting failures at watch auction houses like Sotheby's and Antiquorum. Learn why 'Caveat Emptor' applies to luxury watch auctions.

patrick_y

WPS member · Horological Meandering forum

82 replies14126 views4 photos

Patrick_y, a respected voice in the WatchProSite community, challenges the common perception of auction houses as infallible authorities. His post critically examines the vetting processes and ethical standards within the luxury watch auction market, urging collectors to exercise extreme caution. Patrick_y highlights specific instances of alleged negligence and potential fraud, sparking a vital discussion on transparency and accountability.

Auction houses are often unethical. There. I've said it. Frankly though, a lot of newbie and philistine watch collectors like to buy from auction houses, since these often neavou riche buyers feel that auction houses have properly vetted the watch (when the auction house hasn't really vetted the watch). Some really unintelligent buyers think buying a used watch from an auction house is just as good as buying a new watch from an authorized dealer. Heck, how do you explain why some people pay more for a watch at auction than it retails at the store for? And I'm talking about a watch that isn't that hard to get (not a waitlist watch)! And incredibly, it takes two to bid up a watch, so that means there were probably two people bidding it up!

Some auction houses are worse than others; Antiquorum being probably the worse auction house in the watch world. But all auction houses make mistakes. Sotheby's for instance has made a mistake here. Here they advertise a watch as "Like New" despite it being at least 10 years old (I make that determination because it has a Geneva Seal movement and the Patek Philippe seal came out around 2009, by 2011 Patek Philippe had fully transitioned to the new Patek Philippe Seal).

Notice Sotheby's states this watch is "Like New" and "Year 2020"

Notice in the Sotheby's photo that there is a Geneva Seal at the top of the movement.

Patek Philippe announced their Patek Philippe Seal as their replacement to the Geneva Seal in 2009. Basically, Patek Philippe claimed that their standards were higher than the Geneva Seal requirements and they dropped the Geneva Seal. Critics claimed that Patek Philippe just didn't want to pay the Canton of Geneva the fee for using their seal, but even those critics acknowledged that Patek Philippe watches did usually have higher requirements than those in the seal criteria.

So... Is this extreme negligence on Sotheby's part? Fraud? I'd say yes to all of the above.

But let's not just single Sotheby's out. Every auction house has made mistakes. Antiquorum even seems to sell watches of stolen origins. When a legitimate owner identifies their stolen watch on Antiquorum (serial numbers are often listed on auction catalogues), many auction houses, including Antiquorum, simply returns the product to the consignor and the trail goes cold. I don't have any evidence to say that Antiquorum is intentionally facilitating the sale of stolen watches, but it wouldn't be a stretch to make that statement.

What kind of problems have you experienced with auction houses? What advice and suggestions can you give the community to avoid problems?

Key Points from the Discussion

Blockchain technology is being explored by several watch companies, including Vacheron Constantin, Breitling, and Ulysse Nardin, to record production, sale, ownership, and overhaul dates, aiming to improve record-keeping and facilitate secure ownership transfers.
The implementation of blockchain for watch ownership tracking faces significant hurdles, primarily because physical possession doesn't guarantee digital registration after each sale, and the technology's core strength lies in distributed transaction validation, not physical good authentication.
Digital validation for physical goods is inherently flawed; unique physical identifiers can be replicated, and technologies like QR codes or NFC/RFID chips are easily copied, making them unsuitable for robust authentication.
Auction houses, driven by commission generation, may accept and promote watches that should not be legitimately auctioned, often turning a blind eye to deception and using vague descriptions. This practice is damaging the watch community, and experts who speak out risk business relationships.
Auction house operations are often characterized by periods of slow activity followed by rushed frenzies before major auctions, leading to potential errors in cataloging and descriptions due to the pressure to process consignments quickly.
A personal anecdote details a non-malicious but annoying mistake by Antiquorum US, where a watch was delivered to a neighbor due to an incorrect address. A more serious incident involved Antiquorum Switzerland attempting to sell a 'franken-watch' vintage Vacheron Constantin with a fake bridge.

The Discussion

Mostel

Sep 2, 2021

But I greatly appreciate your boldness and candor here--and your concern. At some point, I'd like to sell an asset through an auction house or a seller appropriate for the asset and this is really eye opening for myself, at least. Appreciate everything you do here.

patrick_y

Sep 2, 2021

Yeah, I'm not going to get any new friends from Sotheby's today. But I feel it's important to point this out because A LOT OF PEOPLE think auction houses have well run operations and are staffed with experts who are accurate and precise all the time. But in reality, mistakes happen all the time! I'd like everyone to imagine the operations at an auction house. Most of the time an auction house has a few important auctions at each location per year; one for impressionist art, one for contemporary

Bill

Sep 2, 2021

They can always blame the seller/ owner. Is this a close auction or upcoming. Link please. Thanks.

mdg

Sep 2, 2021

...but has been sitting in a safe deposit box the entire time?

amanico

Sep 2, 2021

www.watchprosite.com

lm6

Sep 2, 2021

Awful to read this. I presume they didn't give you any information as to the identity of the seller?

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