Patek Philippe Reference Popularity and Influence
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Patek Philippe Reference Popularity and Influence

By Mark in Paris · Jul 28, 2017 · 64 replies
Mark in Paris
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Mark in Paris initiates a thought-provoking discussion on how forum exposure and community tastes influence the perception and success of Patek Philippe references, particularly the 5110, 5070, and 5970. He encourages collectors to critically examine how collective preferences are shaped and to explore a wider array of references beyond the most frequently celebrated models. This philosophical exercise aims to enrich decision-making for future watch acquisitions.

Hi everyone,

I posted some thoughts lately on Baron's 5070 vs 5970 thread and maybe this wasn't the best place to put it (sorry Joe), so I copy it here and take it off his post (I'll add the first answers here as well).

This is a little provocative but please don't see here more than just a disccusion and thoughts on how we shape our tastes and how we can be influenced. Don't see this post as a negative comment on the references I mention but just a philosophical exercize. I love those watches too and they are high on my personal wish-list.

I think that the discussions and different thinking can bring enrichement to people who like to spend time on this forum and think about purchasing watches in the future.

I noticed also that some people who own alternative references sometimes feel not that "at ease" to post as they know how people love the famous ones instead and I see people sometimes going toward these models on the forum because they are appealing to many here (this is quite a human behaviour of course). This can be due because they are in phase with current aesthetical standards but also because I think we see them a lot. The more we see some models, the more they are liked (they should be well designed at the beginning of course), the more they take the place and the less other references can have a chance, even if they are nicely designed.

I don't want to compare those references here, face to face, but just that we take a closer attention to how it works and what it can lead to. Take this as an additional tool to make your decisions in our watch world and not something against our successful early 2000's references.

This is all the difficulty between saying it is famous (so this is a proof it is the best) and saying that it is the best for people here, used to seeing and enjoying them and, then, being in a position it is more difficult to go toward another design.

This is what my post is about.



These are the few remarks I wished to share.

"We talk a lot about the 5110, 5070, 5970 references as iconic. I think that a part of their success is not only because of aesthetical elements but also because of the frequency they are posted on a forum and how the tastes of the poster have been forged. It is then more difficult to explore and go toward something different imho.

We can't be sure that the 5110, 5070 and 5970 will be seen as such in the future, maybe other references will be seen more positively than they are today (hence, maybe more "truely" compared to today). I know that for some it is difficult to imagine but it is possible that, in 5, 10, 20 years from now, the perspective we have can change quite a lot (on one way or on the other way). We can only have a look at 1960's to 1990's watches to see that some famous references have been replaced on the front line of the favorite models. This doesn't mean that in the future these early 2000's reference won't remain number 1, it is just that things may change significantly. What seems obvious today may not be so when we look at how design cycles work.

What I also noticed is that some models can have flaws but people don't see them anymore when it has become successful. I love those watches, but this is what people say as Cons when new models are launched. I tried to see if they could be applied to those famous models too (many are subjective and depend on the observer of course).

The diameter or the movement versus case size matter are rarely something mentionned by people for whom it is usually an issue (especially when novelties are presented). The 5070 is 42mm, the case is big compared to the caliber (not an issue for me but mentionned often), the subdials are quite big compared to the vintage models (which usually serve as references when new models are presented), very close to the center, the overhall balance is placed on the upper side etc...

As for the 5970, we don't talk about the very small and not that nice looking leap year and 24H hands. I'm sure that if it had appeared on a recent novelty for the first time, people would have mentionned them in a negative way.

This is to say that flaws are not always seen as such, can be like a charming element but also that when presenting a competitor, what is reproached then is usually more visible than for older appreciated models. This is all about subjectivity.

Another thought. One element to help seeing that is what would we have thought about the 5110, 5070 and 5970 if volumes had been multiplied by 10 (hence, around 3000 5070P reference). They would still be the same but would have they looked as appealing?

That is all what our hobby is about.


What I think is important here and I wanted to share is that it may lead to standardisation. The main problem now is that the more we see them, the more we talk about them and the more we like them, hence, the more we narrow our choices. This is the same for the Nautilus (model, dial color etc...). When we look at watches people have on forums, what new watches they get, they are among a smaller and smaller group of references.

That's something I think isn't the best situation as we tend to like the same things in the end."



To be clear, I wish those references were still in the catalog so I could get one. I like them but would it be so if I didn't see as many (I don't say it is bad as it is usually giving a good advice to new incomers)? I don't know. However, that's why I try to remain open to novelties, wait to see them in the real and try to know if after a while I can like them a lot, not because I get used to them but because I can try to put aside what I see here and know what really pleases me. Many successful references were not that liked at the beginning (like the Nautilus when introduced for the first time in 1976) but look where they are now.

Please, 5110, 5970 and 5070 owners keep on posting and sharing your beauties, they are useful for those of us who think about getting one in the future, they tell about Patek's history and they are a delight to look at, there is no doubt about it.

Take this post for a mere ingredient in our experience, just food for thoughts (or not smile ) to widen our possibilities.

Best, Mark



_________________________________

Mile_151 has wrote:

Very well put Mark as always
I agree with you 100%. We do seem to accept the perfect imperfections of some blood lines but not others. I for one was really not keen on the 5070 to begin with. I was lucky to get a 5070g and 5070p at retail but something just didn't sit right with my eyes. It was all wrong. Dial lay out case size in proportion to movement size ??? It was a muddle to me. However years on this watch is one of my Favourites now and is so ugly it's beautiful if that makes sense. My brain has learnt not to see its wrongness and only its beauty. And who said men can't be trained ??
Again thanks Mark for your thought provoking post and a huge thanks to our good friend Baron for comparing what for me are both stunning watches even if one is prettier than the other. 
Love the effort gents. 
M. 

dom007 has wrote:

Mark once again you hit the nail on the head
I really appreciate to read your wise comments. It's alway a pleasure to read them. A real enrichment for this forum. Thank you! 




About the Patek Philippe Ref. 5070

The Patek Philippe reference 5070, part of the Complications collection, marked a significant return for the brand to large-format chronographs. Introduced in 1998, it was the first non-perpetual calendar chronograph produced by Patek Philippe since the reference 1463, which ceased production in the early 1960s. Its design drew inspiration from a unique Patek Philippe aviator's watch from the 1940s, characterized by its prominent case and dial layout, yet reinterpreted for a contemporary audience. This reference established a new aesthetic direction for the brand's chronographs, moving towards more substantial case dimensions.

The watch features a 42mm case, initially offered in 18k yellow gold, housing the manual-winding Caliber CH 27-70. This movement, based on a Nouvelle Lémania ébauche, was extensively finished and modified by Patek Philippe, meeting the brand's stringent quality standards. It provides a power reserve of approximately 55 hours. The dial, in this specific configuration, is black, protected by a sapphire crystal, and the watch is water-resistant to 30 meters. The fixed bezel frames the dial, and the watch is typically fitted with a leather strap.

Reference 5070 appeals to collectors interested in modern Patek Philippe chronographs that combine traditional movement architecture with a more contemporary case size. Its limited production run and the subsequent introduction of variants in other precious metals contribute to its collectibility. The reference represents a distinct period in Patek Philippe's chronograph history, bridging vintage inspirations with a new era of larger watch designs.

Specifications

Caliber
Cal.CH 27-70
Case
18k yellow gold
Diameter
42mm
Dial
black
Water Resist.
30m
Crystal
Sapphire

Key Points from the Discussion

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The Discussion
WA
watch-er
Jul 5, 2017

People relish objects from the past because you cannot get new I guess. I personally like the references mentioned and think they represent the best of Patek DNA.

MA
Mark in Paris
Jul 5, 2017

I guess Miles this is indeed natural, imperfection can been seen as charming or unique or like a flaw depending on the subject. I see in your path quite similar elements with what many I think have known (especially as you are now proud owner of this 5970G and 5070). I remember that many of these criteria I look at when selecting a watch have changed since the last few years. I guess we see things differently as we go forward in our watch journey. I didn't like the 5110 or 5070 at the beginning

MA
Mark in Paris
Jul 5, 2017

I imagine it talks to what we've been shaped by, our experience, what we've seen etc... I totally agree on your last comment. I would say that today they are what many will answer first and what matters is to find someting that really appeals to us. Time will tell if new references will find a place considering future's aesthetical standards. Thanks for your input Bob Best, Mark

PA
patekova
Jul 5, 2017

If a high volume of an otherwise fantastic watch is produced, does that fact alone diminish (or even eliminate) the appreciation of and desire to own that watch? The answer for me is "yes" both regarding both the appreciation and desire elements. Yes, I can still appreciate it as a great watch, but I can no longer appreciate it i as something special, rare and exclusive - leading to a lack of desire to own it. A prime example of this is 5960P gray dial. When this watch came out there was a frenz

TH
TheMadDruid
Jul 5, 2017

And I am glad you turned your comment into a separate post. Your argument is valid. We will have to see how people feel about the 5270 and 5170 sometime down the road. I do see more than a few posts here from people who are fully appreciative of the newer references so that I believe the bias toward the older ones is not having a chilling effect; at least totally. But it could certainly be an issue for some people, especially given the deserved respect that the 5970/5070/5110 champions among us

WA
watercolors
Jul 5, 2017

you like the one you're lucky to own in my opinion. The current collection is equally beautiful . Best Regards Edward

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