Patek Philippe 5711, F.P. Journe Market Prices
Market

Patek Philippe 5711, F.P. Journe Market Prices

By Bruno.M1 · May 30, 2021 · 35 replies
Bruno.M1
WPS member · Horological Meandering forum
35 replies6685 views2 photos
f 𝕏 in 💬 🔗

Bruno.M1's thought-provoking post challenges the traditional metrics of value in luxury watch collecting, using the Patek Philippe Ref. 5711/1A, F.P. Journe Chronomètre Bleu, and Élégante as prime examples. He astutely observes a shift in collector priorities, where iconic design and personal preference now often outweigh horological complications and finishing. His comparison to the art market, juxtaposing a Rubens with a Rothko, provides a compelling framework for understanding this evolving landscape.

35 collectors discussing this on the WatchProSite forumJoin the Conversation →
I know not everyone likes to talk about prices on this website so let's respect this a bit. On the other hand we're not stupid and we can't deny these trends. 
If you would have asked anyone in 2010 if a 5711 steel would be more expensive than a gold perpetual calendar chronograph from the same brand (5270)... nobody would have answered 'YES'

But we have to accept that somehow a group of (new ??) collectors came to the market and they do have a different point of view. For them it's not about complications or finishing. They want some iconic designs and a shape / form they like. ( which is about the only reason I can think of to justify the 50K for a quartz Journe Elegante).

And believe me, not all of them are speculators or people that know nothing about watches. I know 2 guys that did pay way over retail for a 5711 and Elegante. The one that bought the 5711 had some really nice other watches but could never get a 5711 from an AD. He wanted it badly and did pay the street price. The one that bought the Elegante is a guy with less knowledge about watches but loves design furniture. 

So maybe ... are we getting old ? smile Seems we still want grande complications if we talk about 6 figures or if it's not a grande complication, at least if must be out the hands of Voutilainen, Dufour, Smith, ...


I tried to compare it with art.


This is a Rubens made around 1600






Do I like it ?
Not at all, I appreciate the craftsmanship and do realize it's a master piece ... But it can not make me happy.




This is a rather recent Rothko



Do I like that one ?
Well I have to admit I would prefer this on my wall than the Rubens.
But on the other hand I have the impression I can make something similar in a couple of hours ... even my 12 year old nephew could give it a try smile


Now the fact is that both were sold for an insane 75.000.000.

And somehow I think the Rubens is a grande complication with super finishing and the Rothko is an entry 3 hands simple watch.


So without trying to discuss prices I am trying to explain that we might be wrong saying :
" you paid that much for watch XX, you know you could have bought watch 'YY' for the same amount and 'YY' is much more complicated and much better finished " 

About the F.P. Journe Élégante Ref. elegante

The F.P. Journe Élégante represents the brand's entry into electro-mechanical timekeeping, distinguished by its hybrid movement technology within the Élégante series. This reference marks a departure from traditional mechanical movements in the F.P. Journe collection.

The 40mm titanium case houses the caliber 1210 electro-mechanical movement, paired with a silver dial and fixed bezel. Construction features include sapphire crystal and a rubber strap, with water resistance rated to 30 meters. The titanium case material provides a lightweight alternative to traditional precious metal constructions.

This reference appeals to collectors interested in F.P. Journe's exploration of alternative movement technologies beyond purely mechanical calibers. The electro-mechanical movement and titanium construction position this piece as a distinct offering within the brand's portfolio, catering to those seeking contemporary technical approaches in independent watchmaking. Production commenced in 2014.

Specifications

Caliber
1210
Case
Titanium
Diameter
40 mm
Dial
Silver
Water Resist.
30m
Crystal
Sapphire

Key Points from the Discussion

Advertisement
The Discussion
CL
Clueless_Collector
May 30, 2021
That is a nice comparison …

Indeed when it comes to Art, it all depends on buyer and of course, their pockets. The $120K duct-taped banana in Miami Basel is how crazy we’re in today….just too much liquidity.

FR
FRAMII
May 30, 2021
I'm probably old fashion I would pick the one I couldn’t paint myself 😂😂😂😂😂😂

DE
dedestexhes
May 30, 2021
If you can/want to spend the money, fine, if not who cares...

CO
Cookies
May 30, 2021
very good post

It provokes the deep thoughts about the state of watch collecting today. On my usual rounds shopping in the city, I see "consolidators" in boutiques, buying up huge portions of inventory. They are not even buying it for themselves, but rather, to re-sell on the secondary market. One sees the same familiar faces all the time. I see algorithms in buying a Birkin. Apparently it is not about buying bag after bag of entry level Hermes bags to entitle one to buy a Birkin. Rather the algorithm seems to

HA
halkcb
May 31, 2021
Well said,your sentiments resonate with me.

Buy what really appeals to you,,regardless of the social hype

IN
India Whiskey Charlie
May 31, 2021
^ This post is right on the money...

Methinks none of this would have happened if watch manufacturers didn’t limit the flow of supply like Rolex started with the Daytona a few decades ago. All of a sudden, people started wanting the unobtainable and that led to “I gotta have what others are after.” Then came shutting down AD's and opening company sponsored boutiques to limit supplies even further. These practices led to a spawn of a multitude of speculators and gray market dealers who have been taking advantage of the situation for

Continue the conversation

This thread is active on the Horological Meandering forum with 35 replies. Share your knowledge with fellow collectors.

Join the Discussion →