Patek Philippe 31-260 PS QL Caliber Discussion

chintu · 2021-04-25T13:02:20Z

Explore the debate on Patek Philippe's caliber 31-260 PS QL finishing. Collectors discuss anglage, hand-finishing, and Patek's position in haute horlogerie.

chintu

WPS member · Horological Meandering forum

133 replies65961 views1 photos

Chintu's incisive observation regarding the Patek Philippe caliber 31-260 PS QL, specifically its anglage, sparked a significant discussion among WatchProSite's discerning collectors. His post challenges the long-held expectations of hand-finishing in high-complication timepieces from Patek Philippe, inviting a deeper look into what defines haute horlogerie in the modern era. This article synthesizes the community's diverse perspectives on finishing, innovation, and brand perception.

One of the editors in another forum have pointed out the absence of interior angles in the caliber 31-260 powering the 5236P. The caliber’s bridges are rounded at the edges but the expert points out that the lack of interior angles are indicative of lack of hand-finishing expected of a high price complication from Patek.

Pic from their website posted here.

Pl remove the post if it violates forum rules. I thought forumners with expertise in judging caliber finishing could give their views and hopefully more hi-res images of the caliber 31-260 can be added to this and discussed. Red arrows point to the highlighted issue wrt the interior angles ( or lack of it).

pic courtesy : quillandpad

Key Points from the Discussion

Patek Philippe's standing as a premier watchmaker means it is held to the highest standards, with its finishing often defining haute de gamme for the industry.
The absence of interior angles, while a point of contention, is not unique to Patek Philippe; other highly regarded brands like F.P. Journe also feature movements without them at similar price points, suggesting that finishing is only one aspect of a brand's overall value proposition.
While Patek Philippe's movement finishing is generally very good, it's acknowledged that some other brands may execute angle finishing better in certain watches. However, this is often not the primary concern for many collectors.
The finishing of modern Patek Philippe movements, such as the caliber in the 6119, is perceived by some as underperforming compared to competitors like A. Lange & Söhne's 1815 caliber, raising questions about the brand's commitment to traditional finishing standards.
Independent brands like Grönefeld, Lang & Heyne, and Romain Gauthier are highlighted for their exceptional hand-finishing, often dedicating weeks to the process for a limited production of watches, setting a benchmark for what is achievable in haute horlogerie.
While modern Patek Philippe finishing might be considered somewhat inferior to older models, the technical innovations and patents in newer calibers, such as the 5170, offer significant advancements that were not present in previous generations, representing a trade-off between finishing and technical prowess.

The Discussion

BigFatPauli

Apr 25, 2021

Here's the thing - we aren't talking about just any half-baked nouveau hipster brand here, we are talking about The crown-less king: Patek. Scratch that: PATEK. Scratch that: PATEK PHILIPPE. Or 'PP'. Whatever is your jam, no judgement. They are not just part of the "Holy Trinity" but the crown jewel, the show stopper, of the bunch. The one that never gets questioned if it belongs. This isn't Carreras or Domingo. No, no. This is the Pavarotti of the trio. Patek Philippe is not just considered to

Bruno.M1

Apr 25, 2021

and unfortunately I agree. And it's exactly the same reason why a 5070 is superior to a 5170 and a 5970 is more interesting than the 5270. I still love the band and the finishing is good ... but it could bet better. Interior angels are among the most difficult to make and can only be done by hand. About 3 years ago I had a lunch with Mr Gauthier, he saw a 5070 and 5170 and said exactly the same thing. Both are nice but one of the 2 will take a lot more hours to finish than the other ... And we a

emcquillan

Apr 25, 2021

You make irrefutable points and in an entertaining way. The hard truth takes a moment to digest. I laughed out loud at "Which is okay because his kids, now in their 20's don't really talk to their dad much, anyway." You paint a picture with your words very well. Best,

jleno

Apr 25, 2021

There are varying degrees of hand finishing and I don't think Patek can be considered entirely machine-finished just due to the lack of interior angles. You do get some other nice finishings like the black-polished screws, perlage, cotes de geneve, etc. If you compare the Patek's movement to what you would get in a Rolex, Royal Oak, or JLC Reverso/Master, the Patek would still be considered more well-finished. That being said, it would be preferable for Patek to hold itself to a higher standard

baufoam

Apr 25, 2021

of Thierry Stern on his 100 million dollar yacht planning his next trip on his private jumbo-jet.

chintu

Apr 25, 2021

...brilliant article on The ABC’s of Watch Finish. This was an eye opener for me when I read it more than a decade ago and it helped me appreciate the beauty of hand finished watches and to also understand the reason why these hand finished works of art deserve a premium; and truly are worthy of haut de gamme status. Lack of hand-finish in a caliber powering a super expensive complication like the PP 5236 is not something to be ignored or accepted as being perfectly normal, simply because Patek

Continue the conversation

This thread is active on the Horological Meandering forum with 133 replies. Share your knowledge with fellow collectors.

Join the Discussion →

Patek Philippe 31-260 PS QL Caliber Discussion

Key Points from the Discussion

Continue the conversation

More from this Forum