IWC Ingenieur Pricing Strategy Analysis

patrick_y · 2023-08-04T23:38:27Z

Patrick_y analyzes IWC Ingenieur's pricing strategy, comparing it to the Mark XX and Rolex Submariner. Explore collector debate on value, design, and market positioning.

patrick_y

WPS member · IWC forum

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Patrick_y's incisive analysis of the new IWC Ingenieur's pricing strategy sparks a vital discussion on value within the luxury watch market. His comparison to the IWC Mark XX, which shares the same movement, challenges conventional notions of how integrated bracelet sports watches are positioned. This article distills community insights on whether the Ingenieur's premium is justified by its design, heritage, and market context.

Synopsis: How does IWC justify the high pricing of its new INGENIEUR line? Patrick_y examines value in today's Swiss Watch Industry.

~~Could IWC be milking the market with a high price for the INGENIEUR model?~~ No, I have to say it in a nicer more constructive way... Could IWC be overcharging slightly on its new INGENIEUR model? Okay, that's going to be too subtle, but I want to be keep an open mind.

IWC is charging around $11,700 USD for their new INGENIEUR line.

This line uses a standard movement and comes in a steel case and steel bracelet.

IWC also makes the Pilots Watch Mark XX for $6,150 USD! This watch also uses the exact same standard movement and comes in a steel case and steel bracelet. Admittedly, yes, this steel case and bracelet are more modular and standardized which does help lower cost. The design has also been around longer so design costs have already been amortized.

Is the INGENIEUR line really worth almost 2X the Pilots Watch Mark XX? I don't think so.

I also feel that the IWC INGENIEUR remake was overdone ever so slightly. The original had a more elegant and softer look without being too dainty. This latest version is too masculine and bulky and has lost a lot of its charm and elegance. The dial engravings are too deep and the pattern is too big and bold. And the pattern on the new INGENIEUR does look like an American flag (maybe this was an homage to USA since IWC was started by an American). HSTE is our resident expert moderator in these 1970s watches and has extensive knowledge amongst all the integrated bracelet models and I've borrowed his photos of this pair of IWC INGENIEUR SL models made decades ago.

IWC is also trying to build up the hype for this watch. Interested parties are supposed to put down a deposit and get on a waitlist. I have a feeling that IWC stores would do this even if they had sufficient stock of the watch. Just to keep up the hype. Some brands are doing this practice even if they have the inventory, just to build the hype.

What is a fair price for the IWC INGENIEUR? Right around $8000 USD, and the absolute max would be $9900 USD. Based on the fact that the IWC Mark XX is priced at only $6150 (the more difficult case and integrated bracelet should be around a 30% price premium than a standardized watch).

Now, in defense for IWC, I'm sure the pricing was heavily considered. And when you see a Rolex Submariner (that uses a derivative case and a modular system) and that Rolex charges $10,250 for a Submariner with date, then the IWC INGENIEUR is priced very reasonably. It would also indicate Rolex overcharges drastically for a simple Submariner. And this Rolex Submariner Date data point would show that the IWC INGENIEUR is VERY FAIRLY PRICED when compared to a Rolex Submariner with date.

Comparing the INGENIEUR line with other products, like the Chopard Alpine Eagle ($14,100 USD) and the Bulgari Octo Finissimo in steel ($13,300 USD), the Chopard and the Bulgari seem to be much better values, as they both use movements that are considered to be a higher grade than the IWC and fairly complex case/bracelet construction methods (that Chopard bracelet probably costs a lot to manufacture). The Bulgari Octo Finissimo is a true haute horlogerie movement due to good finishing and the extra plat (thin) architecture; it's important to note that the Bulgari movement would even nearly qualify for a Geneva Seal; it doesn't because it's not made in the geographic region Canton of Geneva, the finishing standards aren't quite high enough, and the Bulgari movement uses wire springs. I will state, that these two competitors do have their prices artificially low, Bulgari and Chopard are both trying to gain marketshare and are offering superb products at artificially low price points.

Overall conclusion?

After extensive analysis, I've determined that IWC SEVERELY UNDERCHARGES for their Pilots Watch Mark XX! At $6150, that's a bargain!

And IWC is charging a very fair price for their INGENIEUR watch IF you think Rolex is charging a fair price for their Rolex Submariner with Date. And considering Rolex sells so many of these Submariner with Dates, seems that the market has made its statement.

So! Go to an IWC store and check out the latest INGENIEUR! And while you're at it, check out the MARK XX too!

This whole watch industry has just gone crazy with its pricing, with Rolex (the elephant in the room) now charging what it does, none of us are safe anymore!

Christoph Grainger-Herr, this former architect is now the CEO of IWC.

Just goes to show how much of a bargain this watch really is! Probably the best value in the industry!

Another bargain in the high end integrated bracelet steel automatic with date sports watch category. However, the design of this watch is not related to Gerald Genta, unlike the Bulgari Octo Finissimo (design was related to Gerald Genta's Corporation) and the IWC INGENIEUR (INGENIEUR was personally sketched by Genta himself).

A really high quality watch, but really expensive considering the other models out there. Furthermore, this is not an "integrated bracelet" model with a modular bracelet and case design which is much more standardized to manufacture than an integrated bracelet design.

Key Points from the Discussion

The IWC Ingenieur's pricing appears reasonable when viewed against the broader trend of integrated bracelet sports watches, despite its use of a standard movement.
While the Ingenieur benefits from its Gerald Genta design heritage, the significant price difference compared to the Mark XX, which uses the identical movement, raises questions about value, especially for consumers sensitive to a $5,000 delta.
The IWC 32111/32110 movements, while considered 'manufacture' due to unique silicon components, are fundamentally simple and share architectural similarities with Val Fleurier, Sellita, or ETA calibers, indicating they are not 'extremely special'.
The new Ingenieur's design has significantly departed from Genta's original vision, making direct comparisons to the enduring designs of the Patek Philippe Nautilus or AP Royal Oak less valid.
Many IWC models experience significant depreciation on the grey market, often selling at 40% below MSRP within a year, suggesting that the brand's current pricing strategy may not align with its secondary market performance.
Rolex Submariners are valued not just for their market retention but for their consistent reliability in extreme conditions, a factor that differentiates them from more delicate luxury sports watches like the Vacheron Constantin Overseas or Bulgari Octo Finissimo.

The Discussion

India Whiskey Charlie

Aug 4, 2023

Patrick, thanks for the above write-up and you make some excellent points. In general, there are quite a few other brands and watches in the same boat hence your last sentence: "This whole watch industry has just gone crazy with its pricing, with Rolex (the elephant in the room) now charging what it does, none of us are safe anymore"

Steve E

Aug 5, 2023

I have the same feeling - a sensible premium to the Mark is 30 - 40%. There is a lot to like about the new Ingenieur. I'm not sure it's enough though to move the perception needle that far. Wish them luck.

mdg

Aug 5, 2023

...but Rolex is still Rolex, and what they're charging for the Sub is a bargain (at retail) imho. Especially considering resale as some do (I am not interested in reselling watches but at the same time don't want to take a huge hit when 'driven off the lot' : ) )

patrick_y

Aug 5, 2023

Porsche is really charging a lot for their 911 models. And I understand a small premium is necessary for the GT3 models. But that huge of a premium seems to be excessive. Out of all 911 production, around 14% or 1 in 7, are GT3 models (according to a United States dealership employee). In other words, Porsche makes a lot of GT3 models. They're not rare! Therefore, there shouldn't be such a high premium for a GT3 model. For now, some independents offer a good value. The Bulgari is a good value. T

patrick_y

Aug 5, 2023

I also feel the design is just not there. It's cold. Robotic. The older one had an elegance to it. The new one is a little too edgy. I feel it's a big opportunity missed. The crown guards on the new one also kind of add too much to the DNA. I like IWC. I was thinking of getting a new INGENIEUR. When I saw it, I tried to like it. But that dial pattern is so big and bold, and the watch is somewhat thick. And that price just makes me want to go get a Chopard Alpine Eagle (I ordered the pink dial va

patrick_y

Aug 5, 2023

No doubt the Submariner is an excellent watch. But it's not excellent just because it's holding its value well, it's excellent because of its consistent reliability in ultra tough environments and more importantly, it's what the vast majority of people want when they think of spending $10K on a watch - people simply want a Rolex. If I went somewhere on Earth where my life depended on my watch, I'd be wearing a Rolex. Vacheron Constantin Overseas? No thanks. Bulgari Octo Finissimo with 100m water

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