Geneva Seal Changes Announced

WPS member · Cartier forum

11 replies4521 views0 photos

SJX delivers breaking news regarding significant changes to the Geneva Seal criteria, a crucial development for haute horlogerie. This report details how the Poinçon de Genève is evolving to encompass not only stringent movement finishing standards but also new functional and casing-up requirements, addressing criticisms and enhancing its relevance in the modern watchmaking landscape.

11 collectors discussing this on the WatchProSite forumJoin the Conversation →

Last year in my conversations with several executives of Geneva based brands the topic of upcoming changes to the Geneva Seal was often mentioned. The criteria for the seal had not changed in many years and it was losing prestige bit by bit, especially after Patek Philippe abandoned it in favour of its own Patek seal. Cartier of course has the Geneva Seal on its flying tourbillon calibres made in Geneva.

Finally the changes have been announced by the Geneva Laboratory of Horology and Microengineering, also known as TIMELAB, which administers the Poinçon de Genève, at a press conference in Geneva yesterday.

The changes to the seal are significant. The criteria for movement finishing have been made more stringent, in keeping with haute horlogerie standards. But more notable are the new criteria beyond movement finishing in two categories:

Certification of the cased watch, to ensure water-resistance, accuracy, power reserve and functions. For example the watch must be +/- 1 minute or less after seven days on a machine simulating the motions of the wearer. Water-resistance, power reserve and functions must meet the figures promised by the manufacturer.

Casing-up criteria, which dictates the manner in which the movement is housed in the case, for instance clamps and braces must be finished and the screws holding them must be polished

Details of the changes to the seal are available on TIMELAB's site in PDF format .

At the press conference, Thierry Lamoroux, Director of Watchmaking Development Marketing Cartier,at the press conference - Cartier may be a brand but Thierry is one of the faces of Cartier watchmaking

These changes, driven by brands like Cartier, bring the Geneva Seal in line with Qualite Fleurier, which though impressive never gained widespread acceptance. So this leaves COSC as the other major certification that has yet to change.

All the new criteria come into force on 1 June 2012 and brands have until 1 June 2013 to comply.

- SJX

Some of the Fine Watchmaking tourbillons with Geneva Seal

This message has been edited by SJX on 2011-11-10 06:36:55

Key Points from the Discussion

The Geneva Seal previously focused on authentic assembly in Geneva and construction standards, not timekeeping accuracy or complete watch durability like COSC or Qualité Fleurier.
The changes were necessary due to evolving industry standards, exemplified by Qualité Fleurier and COSC, and significantly influenced by Patek Philippe's decision to create its own seal.
A contributor questioned if the new accuracy criteria would increase costs and if brands would offer additional warranties, expressing concern that the changes might be a 'gimmick'.
SJX clarified that Cartier achieves the Geneva Seal for its flying tourbillons by operating a dedicated floor within the Roger Dubuis factory in Geneva, which functions as Cartier's own premises.
While Geneva Seal movements are almost always displayed through casebacks today, in the past, watches from the 1990s, such as some Vacheron Constantin models, could have solid casebacks despite bearing the seal.
The new criteria for the Poinçon de Genève now explicitly include functional and accuracy testing, such as maintaining +/- 1 minute over seven days, in addition to the traditional aesthetic and decorative standards.

The Discussion

MTF

Nov 10, 2011

Cartier factory is in La Chaux-de-Fonds

How does Cartier get a Geneva Seal on their watches if their factory is in La Chaux-de-Fonds? Do they maintain a small office in the Canton Of Geneve to finish the assembly in the geographic area? Regards, MTF

amanico

Nov 10, 2011

In this case, this would be " La Sceau " ( seal, in french ) de Fonds. :) [nt]

No message body

SJX

Nov 10, 2011

Tourbillon movements are made in Geneva

Cartier owns and runs one floor in the Roger Dubuis factory in Geneva where its tourbillons are made. Those are Cartier premises and RD staff can't access them (I tried). The flying tourbillon movement Cartier uses is of course based on the Roger Dubuis flying tourbillon calibre, but modified. - SJX

MTF

Nov 11, 2011

Thanks. I searched the Internet

using the infamous 'Goo-word' search engine and only found a Geneva Cartier boutique address. I forgot about the Roger Dubuis factory. Thanks. MTF

docsnov

Nov 11, 2011

Do movements have to be visible

to earn the Geneva seal? I know it seems logical they would be visible, but many of these companies finish movements with the same techniques even if they are going in a case with a solid back. Just wondering. Stewart

SJX

Nov 11, 2011

That is not a requirement though in practice...

though in practice movement with Geneva Seal are almost always under display back today. In the more modest past it was not the case so you can find watches from the 90s that have solid case back, like VC for example. - SJX