Imitation and flattery

Apr 29, 2015,19:50 PM
 

The “good poets borrow, great poets steal” quip that is attributed to T.S. Eliot is actually paraphrased from a longer passage from the poet and critic which I quote more fully with its context: “Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion.”


I’ve been thinking about the line between imitation and stealing in the context of watchmaking over the past couple of months when I saw a couple of pieces from brands within the Richemont Group that left me scratching my head as my first impression upon seeing them was that they were blatantly ripping off Vacheron Constantin. I wondered if Richemont had a design review board that vets pieces before production to make sure that the brands maintain distinct identities and don’t commit fratricide in the marketplace.


Montblanc’s Heritage World Time:







Which seems to copy Vacheron Constantin’s Traditionnelle World Time:





and Jaeger LeCoultre’s Master Ultra Thin Date:






which seems to copy VC’s Patrimony Automatic (85180):







The element in the Montblanc that most immediately borrows, or steals, from Vacheron Constantin is the Lambert projection of the work on the dial, complete with 24 sectors for the standard time zones. What it does not steal, and which makes the Traditionnelle World Time unique, is its ability to manage telling time in even those zones that are offset from the GMT reference by 15 or 30 minutes intervals. Furthermore, it does not control all operations through one crown, or employ an exclusive in-house ebauche for its movement.


That said, it is a fine looking watch, and in stainless steel will have a retail value less than $10,000. I expect Montblanc will have tremendous success with it, and I wonder if sales of Vacheron Constantin’s World Time will suffer in the marketplace.


The JLC Master Ultra Thin Date places the date at 6 o’clock for a symmetrical dial, like in the Patrimony, and employs entirely stick markers (many Master collection pieces in the past have mixed index with Arabic markers on the dial). The JLC’s markers even taper in a similar way to those of the Patrimony. What’s more, JLC offers the timepiece in a stainless steel case at a price point about a third of that of the Vacheron Constantin.


I can’t deny that it is an attractive watch, and I hope to see one to determine if the finishing is as nice as what I know that of the VC is.


It is a little complicated to ask if JLC and Montblanc have elevated what they are taking from Vacheron Constantin, especially since the pieces are placed in the context of well-defined collections within their own brand’s product portfolios. But never before had I thought to compare a Master Control or Heritage Spirit to something from Vacheron Constantin. I am inclined to think that both of these watches “make better” the collections from their respective makers, but that they don’t quite reach the level of refinement that one finds in the Vacheron Constantin pieces. My thoughts about this are still developing, and I need to see the JLC and Montblanc in person, but I would love to hear your thoughts about them, especially in relation to their close cousins from Vacheron Constantin.


Bill


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Comments: view entire thread

 

A bold question! But one with merit!

 
 By: patrick_y : April 29th, 2015-23:25
Wow! Someone finally asked what everyone was thinking! Yes, the Montblanc "WorldTime" has many similar attributes to the Vacheron Constantin WorldTime. And considering the Vacheron Constantin came to market first, we are all inclined to say Montblanc imit... 

Waxing lyrical?

 
 By: MTF : April 30th, 2015-03:36
Bill, I think that simple extra flat watches are exempt from exclusivity by one brand. Thus the Vacheron & Constantin and JLC shown are not copies of each other. That would be proof of convergence in evolutionary terms. We've seen similar from Piaget,...  

Interesting observations, but...

 
 By: jtodd : May 1st, 2015-06:37
The idea of convergent evolution is interesting, and certainly may apply to the Lambert projection, but what about the other aspects? - Dauphine hands - Bezel shape and proportions - Lugs - Location of brand name - Indices on the hour/5 minutes track I do...  

Thank you Bill. A few weeks ago I put a rude comment to Hodinkee

 
 By: kpk : April 30th, 2015-05:07
telling them that they write an entire article on the JLC automatic with date, saying how great it is, but do not point out that is is blatant Plagiarism. I just find it strange that there are so many so-called watch journalists and experts in the world t... 

It's sad to see Hodinkee lose itself..

 
 By: matthewking : April 30th, 2015-08:01
..for a few sponsorship dollars. That's why I come here for watch reviews and discussion :)

Put me in the "blatant ripoff" camp

 
 By: jtodd : April 30th, 2015-13:44
I have to say that I think it is not flattery at all but that it is intentional and a big mistake. I also have to believe that Richemont not only knows about it, but is promoting it as a strategy - much like the VW, Audi, Bentley strategy. The biggest dif... 

We can learn from other hegemonies, Bill

 
 By: Tick Talk : May 1st, 2015-08:32
I am reminded of car manufactures who offer a piece of the dream at every price point through their sub-brands. It benefits the low and high end offerings; giving the former an obvious target to step up to while the latter enjoys primacy of marketing and ... 

Interesting discussion Guys. But I must say this; Richemont

 
 By: kpk : May 3rd, 2015-01:26
brands overall still have a distinct identity from each other, even though they have a common platform for engineering know how and development should a brand choose to or need to utilize it. Plus - VC CEO did say in a recent interview that VC and RD will... 

Thank you for all the thouhtful replies....

 
 By: WHL : May 4th, 2015-13:52
I really appreciate the analogy to the auto manufacturers. With respect to Montblanc, I am intrigued by their having the prestigious Villeret collection, which I have a lot of respect for, and which has its own distinctive and well-defined look that does ... 

Inspiration and history

 
 By: Marv : May 15th, 2015-16:38
Dear Bill If we step back, don't you think that, in the past, many models were already sharing the same design and similar lines although been produced by different brands? Imitation has been a common practice in the swiss watchmaking industry for years. ...  

Nice pics

 
 By: Tick Talk : May 18th, 2015-09:27
Thanks for putting this together :-) I find they most often share the same case maker, the Manufactures are choosing from a limited selection.

Twins separated at birth?

 
 By: Horologically_minded : May 20th, 2015-05:36
(Images from AP and VC's respective websites) ...  

I don't know about the others

 
 By: jtodd : May 22nd, 2015-06:32
But these Dual-times share the JLC ebauche between Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin. Just like this piece... and this one... Vscheron Constantin only puts their version - the 1222SC in one model - the Overseas Dual-Time. ...