So.......I guess in summary

Mar 24, 2023,07:15 AM
 

Majority of the responses show that our forum collectors prefer the annual calendar coupled with some other complication, such as the chronograph function (i.e. ref. 5960) or a regulator (i.e. ref. 5235). There are also quite a few people who have pointed out their preference for the Nautilus to house the AC, essentially a sports watch with a complication. This would be seen as a departure from its origins as a classic dress watch made to fill the gap between Patek's time-only Calatrava and its perpetual calendar wrist watch. However this preference also underscores the embarking of the modern watch collector's interest for complicated sports watches, which does make sense to me personally, especially when you consider how they stand out amongst a sea of other less complicated, and "ordinary" sports watches. Collectively, these two observations tell me that watch collectors of the 21st century perhaps have a greater appreciation/desire for more complexity and are perhaps more active, and casual in their day to day living. Also, as we all remember, when the world moved into lockdown over Covid-19 during 2020-2021, the default attire was basically loungewear, as we ditched the suit and corporate F2F meetings over Zoom meetings. 


In addition to the above observations, I've also noted the varied appreciation for the stand-alone annual calendar watches of various references (that were mentioned more than once), namely the ref. 5035, ref. 5056, ref. 5396 and ref. 5205. Only once were the ref. 5125 and ref. 5146 mentioned by Jerome, however I enjoyed reading his response, given that he has taken "the road less traveled" when most had opted for the aforementioned references. This is great, because I can see that there is a wide appreciation for the various AC references that Patek has made over the years. Now, let's move on to the discussion for stand-alone annual calendars (ACs)

My personal experience with the stand-alone ACs started out with the Lange Saxonia, and before I could experience what Patek had to offer I went straight for a perpetual calendar (ref. 3940R) due to the opportunity presented to me back then. It was such a collecting journey that inadvertently made me gloss over Patek's AC offerings. I have to admit i was close to buying the ref. 5035/5056 (and at some point a ref. 5146) but did not pull the trigger ultimately. However, the appreciation and desire to own one was always there. Over the last couple of days I have been helping a close friend hunt for his first annual calendar wrist watch. And throughout our conversations, I found myself leaning more and more towards the Patek ACs rather than the Lange ACs. There are two main reasons obviously, one being historical relevance/heritage (Patek invented the AC) and the other being relative value (Patek ACs are generally cheaper than Lange!). Let's pause for a moment and allow me to say this. Lange enthusiasts, please do not hate me wink I'm still a big fan of some of their watches and I still own what I've bought! 

So in any case, with my own justification I went out to explore the world of Patek ACs. In the last couple of days I started looking through the various references all over again. Thanks to all of your responses, my assessment has started to become clearer. While I have not found the perfect stand-alone AC reference yet, my appreciation for them have greatly increased over the last 24 hrs (thanks to all of you again!). Because I'm focusing more on the aesthetics of the watch, I'll leave my assessment for movement specs/finishing aside. The references of interest are as follows: 5035/5056, 5146, 5396 and 5205. 

The ref. 5035 and 5056 are great for their overall case size at 37mm and case shape (thickness is 10.8/11mm, lug to lug ~44mm). To my eye this particular style is perhaps the nicest for its curves and slimness, and is definitely the most reminiscent of the vintage era. The roman numeral "IV" is also something I like versus "IIII". The only issue for me is the closeness of the sub dials and/or moon phase indicator. It feels kinda cramp and doesn't offer much dial symmetry. The date window at 6 eats into the minute track and again offers the same aforementioned problem. While this might be a problem, I do feel that given that this was the pioneering reference for all annual calendars, this "quirkiness" could be overlooked or appreciated in time to come. 

With the ref. 5146, I think my argument is that the larger 39mm case is less vintage inspiring (thickness 11.4mm lug to lug 46.8mm). However the overall styling (curves of the case etc) has been retained. In addition, we have a new dial layout with the combo stick and 3-9-12 markers and the date window at 6 now sits on the minute track (an improvement in my opinion). While the subdials/moon phase indcators are still "squashed", i feel there is more dial coherence here. In other words, the overall dial layout works for me. 

Moving on to the ref. 5396. Again this has the issue of a larger case at 39mm and similar thickness/lug to lug profile. I might be wrong, but even though this has a similar case profile to the ref. 5146, its appearance (on photos) does seem to suggest that it is more restrained and looks (deceiving?) slimmer - by a margin - compared to its predecessor. In my humble opinion this is likely due to the vintage inspired ref. 96 Calatrava-like case design, that causes it to have more defined lines around the case, versus the curves of a ref. 5146. I find the dial design coherent, clean and easy to read. I would imagine such a dial design could potentially exist if ACs were made in the vintage era. The issue I have earlier was the date window at 6 eating into the periphery of the moon phase indicator, but I have - over time - learn to accept it as part of the construction of the moon phase indicator. 

Lastly, the ref. 5205. Obviously, this case is even larger at 40mm, and its thickness/lug to lug profile set at 11.6mm/49.6mm. By comparison this is a large watch -- period. However, Patek "compensates" us with a voluptuous/curvaceous case with hollowed lugs and a concave bezel, all coming in together very coherently. The dial design is truly up for debate. Like it or hate it one might, but it is no doubt reminiscent of one of our forum favorite the ref. 5960 in some way -- thanks to the three apertures on the top side of the dial. However, there is no dispute that this is a modern looking dial for an AC. 

Having discussed all of the above stand-alone AC references from Patek, I think I will have to conclude by saying that the ref. 5396 with baton markers is likely to be my favorite out of the lot. While it has lost some of its vintage-ness due to the 39mm case, it has retained a vintage look with the Calatrava inspired case design. The simplicity of the dial layout makes one think of the vintage era, simply by virtue of how easy it is to interpret the information on the dial. I think the modern 21st century watch collector could find it acceptable with a larger case at 39mm while retaining most other design elements that are still vintage inspiring. After all, 39mm falls under the "acceptable range". Not overly big, not overly small. I have passed my judgement basis my observations and by reading the commentaries online, both here on the forum and elsewhere. It would be great to be able to handle them in the metal all at once, and experience these references all together. The ACs are starting to become one of my favorite complications. A once-a-year adjustment is so easy to do and doesn't bug me at all. Yet the amount of information it provides far outweighs that small inconvenience. A click a year saves you tens of thousands versus the ownership of a perpetual calendar too. I know it's not about the money, but the curse of my day-to-day job is having the knowledge of relative valuation, and hence being incapable of ignoring the value these ACs give us, as collectors. 

Thanks for reading.

Best,
Gatsby 
 



More posts: 3940503551465205523553965960calatravacomplicationsgrand complicationsnautilusSaxonia

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

The best Patek Annual Calendar

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 23rd, 2023-15:14
I’m not sure if this topic has ever been discussed before, but I would like to ask forum members what would be his or her favorite Patek Annual Calendar and why? I have long admired Patek Philippe for coming up with this complication. Even though it sits ... 

Good question !👍. My favorite is the

 
 By: GLau : March 23rd, 2023-15:27
5726/1A-014 Nautilus blue dial in steel ! How do you like this one ?

Interesting Gordon :-)

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 23rd, 2023-16:18
I was thinking more of dress Patek, and annual calendar only without other complications. I tend not to think about the Nautilus these days, as I prefer to go back to Patek’s classic watches and focus on that. Best Gatsby

5235G or 5960G

 
 By: ChetBaker : March 23rd, 2023-15:28

Excellent choices

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 23rd, 2023-16:21
I love the 5960G and the 5235 is an interesting complication. But again if you were to choose a stand alone annual calendar, which reference would it be? Best Gatsby

:-)

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-01:52
Gotcha Chet. Best Gatsby

IMO it’s a tie between these three annual calendars: 5726a, 5960a & 5450p

 
 By: BigAppleBill : March 23rd, 2023-16:06
Surprisingly, the most complicated one is the least expensive. Credit: Sotheby’s Credit: Sotheby’s Credit: Sotheby’s ...  

Thanks Bill

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 23rd, 2023-16:24
You raised an important point. The least expensive of your choices is the most complicated one. It has also been said that the ref. 5960 is an underrated reference as people have followed the hype on luxury sports watches and ignored some really nice clas... 

I’ve always thought of the 5960a as Patek’s sophisticated reinterpretation of the Newman Daytona.

 
 By: BigAppleBill : March 23rd, 2023-16:31
And I think it will be treated as such as the years pass.

5035

 
 By: nice2guy : March 25th, 2023-19:40
Being a traditionalist, I pick the 5035. It was the first annual by any manufacturer, and it is what the annual was suppose to be, which is a classic, simple dress watch with one complication. And the case was made for the caliber. No extra space on the b... 

+1!!

 
 By: hmd4m : March 30th, 2023-21:44
...  

Difficult choice but …

 
 By: Cpt Scarlet : March 23rd, 2023-16:41
The answer to your question will obviously depend heavily on style, personal preference and wrist size will play an important factor. The 5905/1A gets my vote for many reasons but particularly because it’s available in steel and the sunburst olive green d...  

My choice 5960P

 
 By: chris7509 : March 23rd, 2023-16:49
If i were to pick one immediately it would be one of the first series 5960P so either grey or blue one but this would be a sporty choice. If i am to look into a more formal choice, 5396 or 5205 but my real choice is above.

+1 on the 5960.

 
 By: amanico : March 23rd, 2023-18:08

5326G for me

 
 By: FlatSix911 : March 23rd, 2023-17:17
Reason being I love how casual looking it is and tshirts and shorts are all I ever wear.

5960g for me

 
 By: penfriend : March 23rd, 2023-18:37
Unfortunately I missed that one

You can always find one!

 
 By: amanico : March 23rd, 2023-18:55

yes, but there was an unsold one last autumn from AD at MSRP

 
 By: penfriend : March 23rd, 2023-19:03
I missed it (as so often) as it was not in my town

maybe later some day, as they are out of production there is no hurry yet

 
 By: penfriend : March 23rd, 2023-20:48
and first I will pick up my RG 5712 when I return from the sunny island

LOL!

 
 By: amanico : March 23rd, 2023-21:38

The best annual calendar…

 
 By: lascases : March 23rd, 2023-20:34
… is the original (5035 and 5056). Everything else is just a derivative. 5035 has some rarer dial variants I would focus on, 5056 has been produced in rather moderate numbers. These versions I would recommend to a collector.

5125 or 5960G

 
 By: Jp75 : March 23rd, 2023-20:41
Interesting question! As a modern one, would go for the 5960G. Interesting mix of complications in a form factor that is between sporty and casual. If I can go vintage, would go for the 5125 - positively quirky with its crown crown, moderate size. The log...  

Loved reading your thoughts on the subject matter

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-13:07
And thank you Jerome for bringing to my attention the ref. 5125. I almost forgot about that one! Agree on the Ref. 5960 being a great piece to add to the collection. My preference is for the platinum variant, as I move the leaf hands. Best Gatsby

Maybe this one?

 
 By: FRAMII : March 23rd, 2023-21:25
...  

The original 👍

 
 By: lascases : March 23rd, 2023-21:31

Nice enough, but I do not like the feeling in the movement when setting the time

 
 By: VintageCollector : March 24th, 2023-21:36
Too flimsy and too low gear ratio

Yes!🙌

 
 By: hmd4m : March 30th, 2023-21:45

5235G & 5396G

 
 By: drphileasfogg : March 23rd, 2023-22:10
The ones I own 😃

Both excellent choices

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-13:08
Thanks for your thoughts Best Gatsby

5235 hands down!

 
 By: VintageCollector : March 23rd, 2023-23:08
Simply because of the 240-derived movement with a micro rotor. I hate when big rotors obscure half of the movement. Otherwise 5960/1a is a real favorite.

agree +2

 
 By: watch-guy.com : March 23rd, 2023-23:42

I hear you on the big rotor !

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-13:03
I too have a preference for micro rotors. Just visually more pleasing without the obstruction of one’s view on the movement. Best Gatsby

I like the 5205 series —

 
 By: Jim14 : March 23rd, 2023-23:38
The case is very cool and the dials are the most balanced and harmonious.

Thank you Jim for your thoughts

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-13:04
The case indeed is very well put together. Best Gatsby

My favourite my friend.

 
 By: Miles_151 : March 24th, 2023-06:02
First series Geneva seal 5960p. Does it all with the added bonus of auto & Flyback Chrono. As our friend already said this piece of art has gone under the radar during all the sports watch madness. For me this watch represents so much. Not to mention the ... 

No surprise to me my friend.

 
 By: Miles_151 : March 24th, 2023-06:16
As we say in the UK. You know your onions. I’m sure they have the same saying in France . M.

Hehehe! Good one!

 
 By: amanico : March 24th, 2023-22:58

Yeeeees!

 
 By: amanico : March 24th, 2023-22:56

It’s all about the seal

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-07:22
And that grey dial that almost reminds me of a cloudy, sunless day in London 😜 Best Gatsby

I am so pleased I made an impression.

 
 By: Miles_151 : March 24th, 2023-07:38
And even more pleased I helped you to appreciate Port. 😜. M.

OH Port…..

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-13:01
I haven’t had any since that evening! Best Gatsby

Same here 🙈

 
 By: Miles_151 : March 24th, 2023-23:00
I love it but it doesn’t love me. M.

So.......I guess in summary

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-07:15
Majority of the responses show that our forum collectors prefer the annual calendar coupled with some other complication, such as the chronograph function (i.e. ref. 5960) or a regulator (i.e. ref. 5235). There are also quite a few people who have pointed... 

Wow my friend.

 
 By: Miles_151 : March 24th, 2023-07:36
Your devotion to this subject is humbling. I have very much enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions on this so very important complication….the annual calendar. Which has been so important in Patek’s history and what makes them what they are today. Tha... 

Thank you Miles

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 24th, 2023-13:09
I have been enlightened in France before and now in the UK. Thanks to two of my best mates here I’m finally seeing the light and attaining greater appreciation for what Patek truly is. Best Gatsby

Hi Mr. Gatsby, Great for you to spend time to clearly explain your

 
 By: GLau : March 24th, 2023-17:49
thought process and preference ! The fact that you asked the forum and received helpful feedback is what WPS is all about. Sharing is caring and thank you for replying with your appreciation of our comments from different angles.

Thanks Gordon :-)

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 26th, 2023-18:07
Always appreciate your comments since you’re a major Patek enthusiast yourself. Best Gatsby

Love your selection

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 26th, 2023-18:06
You have great taste. Followed you on IG for awhile now. Best Gatsby

Yes I am :-)

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 29th, 2023-04:29

There are some great pieces available and I own(ed) the 5726A, 5146G, 5960P and 5205G. Winner for me is the 5205G-010

 
 By: Watchlover42 : March 25th, 2023-09:41
As you are just interested in stand alone ACs, I would see the 5205G-010 as the winner. Not because it's my latest acquisition, but for me it's the most versatile watch. Especially the case with it's skeletonized lugs and the two tone dial makes this watc...  

You chose well

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 26th, 2023-18:09
That’s my favorite dial color. The only problem for me is size. Other than that it’s pretty much perfect in my eye. Best Gatsby

4947/1a

 
 By: StanCalatrava : March 25th, 2023-12:13
Hello - 4947/1a is for me a modern classy and all round annual calendar - I am loving it !!

Had very little experience with this reference

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 26th, 2023-18:09
Why do you love it? Best Gatsby

Anything with apertures vs. Subdials for me

 
 By: WatchFan1 : March 25th, 2023-16:37
My favorites are 5960 and 5135

I was waiting for someone to quote the 5135

 
 By: Mr.Gatsby : March 26th, 2023-18:12
I’m intrigued by the Gondolo case. After watching Reardon’s video on annual calendars I must say it has stirred something within me when it comes to the 5135. Best Gatsby

5135

 
 By: gqmagic : March 28th, 2023-04:23
Is my favorite ...  

Better

 
 By: gqmagic : March 28th, 2023-04:39
Enter text ...