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Patek Philippe

Quite interesting thread!

 

Hi,

I too find this thread to be quite interesting.  I was a bit worried first as we don't discuss value here, as per forum rules, but the way it has been proposed and answered is IMHO quite acceptable.

I understand your question as I have to admit I'm asking myself the same question at the time being, at a different level, but with the same logic.

I'm married and make a living for two children that I want to see follow long studies later. I have a mortgage but no other debts. I have a decent job but nothing extraordinary. My job is definitely unsecure but I trust my capacity to find a new one if necessary (even if possibly less well paid).

I've always bought watches when I had money available and no other urgent need to answer. Furthermore the watches I've bought so far where always of unsignificant value compared to my mortgage.

As of today after selling 6 watches in 2010 I could (financially speaking) enter a Patek Philippe salon and buy a Nautilus 5711/1A (well let's say I could go up to a 5146G, but not a 5170J yet). I could probably sell a few more watches (that I would probably regret) and have the required money for a 5170. I've never bought a PP before but I have a good relationship with PP so I suppose they would sell one to me (let's suppose so, that's not the question).

Would I do it? Would I buy a 5170? I don't think so. That would represent too much money for me.

Would I do it for a 5711? That's my current problem. If there's one current PP watch to buy that's the one. The only real PP competition as of today would be more a PP minute repeater pocket watch, but it is not as simple as buying (and selling) a 5711. If I buy a 5711 today I think I take little risk of loosing any money. I think I'd really wear it easily in my kind of life.

So my real problem is to know if I'd need this money for something else in a short or medium term. If yes it would be irresponsible to buy, if not, why not buy it?

I don't have the answer for myself!  smile

Cheers

Dje




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56 Comments view entire thread 

How do you know when you can afford a 5078

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-05:24
Its been a lifelong dream of mine to own a PP MR. I have owned some nice patek complicated pieces in the past but nothing quite at this level of commitment. Now I am back to daydreaming about the 5078, the ultimate combination of timeless beauty with the ... 

Savor the expectation

 
By: Park : December 4th, 2010-06:30
Dionigi, On a practical level, while you may well be able to afford the purchase with respect to cash flow, 7-8% of net worth is too high for my taste. Emergency needs arise, tuitions inflate faster than everything else, and disability insurance is never ... 

this is a decission you need to make on your own

 
By: Bruno.M1 : December 4th, 2010-06:46
You're talking about 7-8% of your net worth. I'm probably the biggest moron on this forum. Believe me or not but for me almost everything goes into this passion. As long as I can pay my bills every month I feel safe to spend the rest. 10K on my bank accou... 

Depreciation

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-06:55
Well Bruno - thanks for your comments. I totally understand your passion. With regards to the fear of potential loss upon resale, I can tell you it doesn't bother me that much. I recently lost a similar amount on selling a silly sports car (unfortunately ... 

I am with Bruno...

 
By: mjnoumoff : December 4th, 2010-09:35
Well Bruno, I guess WE are the biggest fools on the forum. I am in the same camp as you and as long as my bills are paid, I put the rest of my money towards my passions. I don't golf, smoke, or drink fancy wines so watches do it for me. I also live in NYC... 

It's like marriage mate

 
By: Hororgasm : December 4th, 2010-10:10
Do you promise to forever love and cherish the 5078, till death do you apart? If answer is yes, then do it. Especially since you are not perturbed by depreciation, which in reality is like paying a lump sum settlement should you divorce. Just buy it, in y... 

LOL, don't know if I can take that vow

 
By: redshift75 : December 4th, 2010-10:19
If my past behavior is an indicator I am not sure that I could vow love for life for a 5078. It all seems wonderful in the mind but you don't really know until you live with it, right?! This message has been edited by Superquant on 2010-12-04 10:21:32

On the contrary, I think I could

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-10:23
Although I agree it is hard to know if attachment is long term or not without going through daily life together

to buy or not to buy

 
By: andy77 : December 4th, 2010-10:48
this is a very difficult decision to make - because purchasing the MR now has considerable opportunity costs because of the very high price tag. the 5078 is in the $600k USD if I am not mistaken. So you forego what that $600k would have made had you inste... 

Not quite that expensive

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-10:56
Andy, the 5078P I am looking at is about 340k, about 10% off list. I am not getting it directly from AD but rather from a trusted secondary source. To be honest I'm not into dealing with an 'application' process for spending this kind of money, it all see... 

I don't agree that one must be debt-free in order to consider luxuries

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-14:35
While I agree that one should be financially prudent when it comes to luxuries, I do not believe in the one dimensional view that all debts are bad and therefor must be satisfied before indulging in extraneous expenses. Even in the case that I were not co... 

It's a good thing Susie Orman isn't on the forum.

 
By: whit : December 4th, 2010-13:10
None of this really makes any sense, but it's not about making sense. It's about what you want and you say you've got the money to do it, but is it the responsible thing to do? I don't hardly think the kids will starve, not go to college, etc. You're a yo... 

Options

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-14:54
I think there is some truth to your comment about 'the stars lining up' - the 5078P is available, it is the most 'affordable' grand complication from PP that includes a MR, and it also happens to be one that looks wonderful and has a case size that I like... 

Sole discretion?

 
By: Eric09 : December 4th, 2010-15:43
What's the mother of your kid's opinion? Eric01

A lot of discretion

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-15:57
She is not that amused by the idea but she has enough faith in me that I will be there to provide whatever is necessary for our family, as I have always done. I am fortunate to have a lot of discretion in these kinds of things. Truth is that this purchase... 

Another angle...

 
By: Watch4Steve : December 4th, 2010-18:10
I struggle a lot with granting myself "permission" to spend crazy money on watches. I too am very fortunate to be financially able to do it and still meet my commitments to my family, but I still question whether it's "right". It really is a somewhat emba... 

Manufacture costs

 
By: mjnoumoff : December 4th, 2010-18:03
Regarding the cost of manufacturing the watch, that MSRP takes into consideration manufacture costs + research and development + facility costs + overhead, etc. I bet Patek spent more than 300k researching and developing the parts and movement for that wa... 

So why does MR from other firms cost 1/3 of PP

 
By: Dionigi : December 4th, 2010-20:50
All true and well known, manufacturer has to amortize their R&D costs and all the rest. However, so do other firms. It still begs the question of what the true additional costs are that PP incurs to make their MR vs JLC, VC, etc to make it that much more ... 

I'd love to be a fly on the wall

 
By: andy77 : December 4th, 2010-23:29
when Patek Philippe has a discussion on how they will price their pieces. I am sure one of the considerations for Patek pricing is the robust demand for the Patek MR's ( many more people have the money and want to buy a Patek MR than they produce yearly )... 

Interesting thread............

 
By: Topcat30093 : December 5th, 2010-02:26
With many different response's being generated. Unfortunately I have the same mindset as Bruno & mjn, and echo their sentiments, but I can also see the otherside of the discussion. Having read your various replies, the vibes that I am getting from you. Is... 

Day dreaming indeed

 
By: Dionigi : December 5th, 2010-07:55
You are right - this is probably fantasy land in my mind. I guess if I could truly afford a watch of this level I would not be sweating the details to such a degree and if I truly loved it I would just get it. So this is probably a sign for me to chill ou... 

Quite interesting thread!

 
By: Dje : December 5th, 2010-06:00
Hi, I too find this thread to be quite interesting. I was a bit worried first as we don't discuss value here, as per forum rules, but the way it has been proposed and answered is IMHO quite acceptable. I understand your question as I have to admit I'm ask... 

If you permit me......

 
By: MiniCooper : December 5th, 2010-06:14
an advice...... You have been after the 5711 for some time and you seem to be also seduced by the 5170.... I made a mistake once buying a watch that was generally great and quite interesting but, at the end of the day, not the watch for me for several rea... 

Human conscience

 
By: mjnoumoff : December 5th, 2010-08:01
I agree that this is a great thread, that is applicable to almost any watch purchase, relative to the purchasers economic status and liabilities. The amount of money that the purchaser intends to spend will not cripple their current lifestyle or prohibit ... 

That is why I got myself this

 
By: Dionigi : December 5th, 2010-08:15
Off topic but on your subject of 'rewarding oneself', upon a nice return from one of my private equity investments I splurged on this toy....  

458

 
By: mjnoumoff : December 5th, 2010-08:40
Wow 458. Any issues with the heating insulation that resulted in a recall!?

No issues

 
By: Dionigi : December 5th, 2010-08:47
Got it sorted out a few months ago with that recall .. been all good. But it does make you really wonder about 'value' of these timepieces: Patek 5004 or 458?!

hmmm probably 5004.

 
By: mjnoumoff : December 5th, 2010-08:58
The reason I say this is because I live in NYC and where could I really drive the 458? Not to mention parking the car and fears of dings/dents/reckless people. At least with the 5004 I can tuck it under my shirt cuff while on the subway or taxi. I never r... 

looking back

 
By: watch-er : December 8th, 2010-07:52
Looking back, now at 60, I see that money is far better to be invested for the future and then reap the benefits of wise investments later in life. The "opportunity cost" of luxury goods bought early in life is very substantial and can really deplete one'... 

I hear you - I'm passing on this watch

 
By: Dionigi : December 8th, 2010-08:09
Especially at this level of expense there is a big opportunity cost involved. I've decided to hold off and look into a more modest timepiece, just feel like it would be too stressful to have a single luxury item that is so expensive. I'm not there yet, ma...