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Patek Philippe

Buying with Certificate of Origin vs. Extract from Archives??

 

I am considering purchasing a 25-year-old Calatrava.
This will be my first purchase of a "semi-vintage?" PP watch.
I found 2 options that are in excellent condition. (Both are the same model.) 

Option 1)  "Certificate of Origin", brand-new PP strap, paper PP box with leather case. (No overhaul by PP)

Option 2) Extract of the Archives, receipts for 2 overhauls by PP service center (in April 2022 and in 2008),  brand-new PP strap, paper PP box (seems no leather case).

I am considering option 2 not only because the watch has been overhauled 2 times, including one done this year, but also because it is priced several thousand $ USD less. 
I wanted to know your opinions in regard to the necessity, importance, or value of having a Certificate of Origin vs an Extract from the Archives for older PP watches?
I assume for an older watch the Extract is good enough. Or maybe, "watch only" is good enough without any papers for this one (?) 

Thanks in advance for feedback. 

Ron





Pics are cropped and borrowed from the Internet

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16 Comments view entire thread 

I always feel

 
By: sham1 : August 20th, 2022-16:33
that if a certificate of origin accompanies an older Patek watch, chances are the owner may have kept it in better condition than one where the certificate of origin is missing. I personally keep every box and documentation that accompanies a watch but so... 

To get an extract you must produce a coherent package to patek.

 
By: Bill : August 20th, 2022-19:50
Sure extract is second best but still proves solid verification. You must produce the case serial and the movement serial as well as five pictures of the watch including the strap/bracelet. Patek will check to see that what you provide corresponds to how ... 

I am the OP and thanks for the feedback

 
By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 21st, 2022-04:10
As this is my first foray into an older Patek, all of your feedback gives me more direction on how to approach Option 1 and Option 2. So far I have only seen the watch online. It looks beautiful in pics, but could be disappointing when on the wrist. I nev... 

Option A !!!!

 
By: Motty : August 21st, 2022-12:23
A) you know the dealer and can try on the watch not just see pics of the watch! B) when a watch has the papers, it means it comes from someone who took well care of the watch and cared for it! C) it can’t be copied papers vs a archives can be touched the ... 

Thanks for the input,

 
By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 21st, 2022-14:18
Now I have to check watch A this week and see its condition and if it has any overhaul history in 25 years.

Papers !

 
By: Pim : August 21st, 2022-09:12
I would pay more for a watch with the original papers because that, for me, is the icing on the cake. I cannot comment on the deal without knowing when the watch with papers had it's last service, how old it is, what the price difference exactly is OR wha... 

Thanks and I completely undertand. I have never bought a watch without papers....

 
By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 21st, 2022-14:16
This time I was wondering about the importance. Both A and B are 25 years old. Paper is icing on the cake for A, but I am wondering if it has ever been overhauled in 25 years. I am planning to go check this week, if the watch is still available.

If it is semi vintage...you should be able to find one in mint condition with original certificate and box.

 
By: ylk01 : August 24th, 2022-03:00
I would find one with original certificate and box in mint condition if it semi vintage (unless, it is some rare version). If it is vintage from 40's to 60's, then you don't have the luxury to wait for one to pop up. best luck.

Thanks for the comments. It is from 1997

 
By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 24th, 2022-14:02
I went to look at Option 1 and bought it today. It's beautiful and in excellent condition. I have bought from this dealer in town 3 times now. Very knowledgeble and his watches sell quickly. The watch will arrive on Friday. It is fate because Option 2 sol... 

congrats

 
By: ylk01 : August 26th, 2022-00:06
good decision, if u purchased option 2 , you will always cringe whenever u see another one w/ original certificate.

Choices

 
By: keks : August 24th, 2022-05:02
I will assume you trust both sellers equally, then it comes down to some math and an assessment of the current condition of the watch. In general there is a discount for a watch that lacks original papers, what this discount is depends on the watch. For a... 

You are correct about 15-20% difference in price. 20% is exact! Thanks for the input

 
By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 24th, 2022-13:50
In the end I went with the one with the Certificate of Origin because I had no Option 2. That was due to circumstances, like luck or devine intervention by god (ha ha), because the cheaper one with Archives sold on Sunday. After yours and everyone's comme...