When you're ready to step-up from Pateks....

Oct 30, 2018,07:56 AM
 

F.P.Journe. There are also many independents that truly do exceptional work. The mess of decoration on current Pateks is not uniform nor seems 'organized'. Also seems Patek is using larger bits to decorate movement, and using fewer / larger bridges to cut costs. Same with dials, as sub-dials look like cost savings efforts to use the same part within more timepieces.


JMHO. Please seek out independent makers, great companies like FPJ, ALS, etc. Have been collecting and admiring mechanical timepieces for decades, so perhaps i recall those past great efforts and so the current Pateks fall short to my eye. Note am not going to discuss long service times, as we all know the major problem there. 

So please, next time you post about Patek 'haters', how about also consider the many far more creative manufacturers now within the marketplace smile












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Comments: view entire thread

 

Patek: Finish and perception of quality

 
 By: Miranda : October 29th, 2018-15:02
In this post, I wish to address the elephant in the room – finishing and the perceived poor value from Patek Philippe (PP). There have been repeated posts regarding PP, that I have let go, but statements such as “overhyped mass market products” was the st...  
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I’m pleased that we have sorted that out. [nt]

 
 By: Cpt Scarlet : October 29th, 2018-15:50
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As long as the sun rises and sets

 
 By: Thomas_3 : October 29th, 2018-16:10
we will always have differences of opinion on this forum, be it the PP forum, Mont Blanc, JLC, Rolex, Seiko, etc. The differences of opinions are what keeps everyone's "spring wound" so to speak. Not saying I agree, or disagree with you, just saying we ha... 
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What a great post. Thanks for this Imran! [nt]

 
 By: agyzace : October 29th, 2018-16:18
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Cheers buddy [nt]

 
 By: Miranda : October 29th, 2018-16:28
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Cheers to you my friend.

 
 By: agyzace : October 29th, 2018-22:44
Love opinionated, yet substantiated and respectful posts like this. Just excellent! Cheers, Alex
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Let's enjoy what we have for now, life is too short...

 
 By: Poky : October 29th, 2018-16:25
At the end of the day the manufacturers are here to make money. They are not in the business for the humanitarian reasons or good of the planet.
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Yes I totally agree, hence I will be setting out a position statement on standards

 
 By: Miranda : October 29th, 2018-16:28
But yes you are right, they are only watches at the end of the day Thank you for keeping our feet on the ground 👍🏻
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Your statement is not a fair representation of the facts..

 
 By: Cpt Scarlet : October 30th, 2018-01:26
The Hans Wilsdorf Foundation, is registered as a charitable organization. The shares of Rolex are held in the foundation with detailed instructions on how to handle the finances. The first goal of the foundation is to ensure the sustainability of the grou... 
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Yes indeed, Patek is not to everyone taste, and that’s what makes collecting enjoyable

 
 By: Miranda : October 29th, 2018-16:50
I don’t mind differences in opinion: its ill informed hate / rudeness that I will put an end too Btw the Breguet is one of my favourite watches and from an aesthetic point , Breguet make the most agonisingly beautiful watches
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Best of luck with that endeavor my friend. [nt]

 
 By: pmh6000 : October 29th, 2018-18:14
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All I can say is I am happy with my Patek timepieces.

 
 By: Greenwatch : October 29th, 2018-16:47
I’m happy to have the opportunity to own the pieces that I like. I am happy that I didn’t err in my decision to get Patek timepieces at a later stage of my life. I am happy that my Patek timepieces have kept their values through the years. I am happy that... 
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So eloquently put....thank you

 
 By: Miranda : October 29th, 2018-16:56
“While I always believe that we can always agree to disagree. Let’s continue with fair and objective posting in this forum.”
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Well said. I love this forum. I have learned so much.

 
 By: Costa (aka Connie) : October 30th, 2018-12:34
You all have helped me acquire enough information to make my Patek 5270 purchase very comfortable. Thanks to all. Ps. Day, moon and date are off. Time is correct. I Put the watch in rotation this morning. Need to set it tonight after work. ...  
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Congrats! That’s one grail Patek timepiece there!

 
 By: Greenwatch : October 31st, 2018-00:34
Wear the watch in good health!
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Thank you very much.

 
 By: Costa (aka Connie) : October 31st, 2018-17:58
I am liking this watch more everyday I wear it. It took some time for me to warm up to the 41mm size.
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Great post. It was about time this was said. [nt]

 
 By: RussW : October 29th, 2018-17:42
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Imran I have been a long term fan of Lange and have owned many pieces since it’s 90s inception....

 
 By: Horology75 : October 29th, 2018-18:10
Same goes with JLC and I do own heavy pieces north of $75k mark and as you rightly said none stand close to What Patek offers . It’s a complete package . Hate to sound commercial but Patek gives you all what none can offer. Prestige , Quality, Rarity, Res... 
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"Prestige , Quality, Rarity, Resale , Appreciation and above all Satisfaction" 

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : October 29th, 2018-19:17
Wow, you really have summed up some of the well-written odes to Patek that have come out recently. While Patek won't be a focus for me, it's hard not to appreciate the passion it evokes among purists.
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Still no match for Vacheron Constantin

 
 By: mohammad : November 3rd, 2018-23:02
Vacheron Constantin is the Founder of Haute Horology and it`s Royal Heritage is unmatched by pp , but the latter has higher resale value and higher prices paid in auctions due to : 1- better advertising 2-it`s own staff who set high bids . The second poin... 
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Thank you, Imran!

 
 By: BMR : October 29th, 2018-19:02
Excellent post, and thank you for setting some records straight while also advocating for a respectful and reasoned dialogue. By the way, Larry Pettinelli did an interview with Gear Patrol today where he says the hand finishing is the same in a Calatrava ... 
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Excellent posts! Glad you commented passionately on this issue

 
 By: traineract : October 29th, 2018-21:38
This is a fantastic article. We need more of such sharing! Also Walts article definitely should be revisited from time to time. Great stuff. I'm a huge fan of pp. To me they r in their own special realm, no comparison. That said, because they are pp, that... 
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In my opinion

 
 By: sham1 : October 29th, 2018-22:03
Patek offers the complete watch in every category. Some may prefer the designs of other watches but when it comes to the important areas of reliability, accuracy, exclusitivity, movement design and finishing,after sales service service and resale value, I... 
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It boggles my mind that people still think a case and bracelet has much handwork involved...

 
 By: datograph : October 29th, 2018-22:39
Today, polishing, brushing and bevelling is all made by CNC machine with almost non human hands involved. And that Rexhep Rexhepi learned by Patek Philippe (worked for F.P. Journe) doesn‘t compliment Patek Philippe per se, it compliments their teaching in... 
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Stop bogling your brain, I spent 2 days in the manufacture watching it all being made

 
 By: Miranda : October 29th, 2018-23:54
the case and bracelet are all finished by hand Maybe you should get your facts right before tapping
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Take it easy

 
 By: mohammad : October 30th, 2018-00:19
no need to get offended by your fellow members opinions . We have the right to express our views just like you . this forum is for sharing thoughts .
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i don't think for a second that Miranda is offended.....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-00:54
Rather, I think he is merely pointing out that Datograph was making factually inaccurate statements that were based on a lack of knowledge. Opinions are great and welcomed. But on Watchprosite, we try to make sure opinions are informed and based on facts.... 
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I‘m not making factually incorrect statements!

 
 By: datograph : October 30th, 2018-01:21
First of all I know how a company operates and how it sells itself to customers (my company also guides customers through the facility and shows them how we produce everything ourselves...) and second, recently published an interview where a watchmaker f... 
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I am afraid you are mistaken

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-01:36
Like Miranda, I have also visited the Patek Philippe manufacturer (three occasions for me, probably more for Miranda) and I can tell you categorically that your statement is incorrect. I have seen with my own eyes.
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I’m not going to take your believe....

 
 By: datograph : October 30th, 2018-04:15
...but visiting a facility means nothing today. The company I work for does the same thing as I already mentioned and we have all the machines and skills to do so, but we don’t do it. There is a reason why marketing works... people believe too much!
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Give it a rest.

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : October 30th, 2018-05:02
You saw a tv show and your company scams customers. And that is what you base your opinions on?
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I am not sure he will reply [nt]

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-05:05
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Don Baron...

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : October 30th, 2018-05:35
I am eagerly awaiting your daughter's wedding day, so I can ask for a favor. I'm just afraid it will never happen.
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possibly my favourite scene from any of the trilogy

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-05:44
www.youtube.com
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Soooo, no Terminator for me.

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : October 30th, 2018-07:36
Damn
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“That, I cannot do” [nt]

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-07:41
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But my company does it all the time.

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : October 30th, 2018-07:58
And I saw a tv show about it...
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This is great. Just like the good old days.

 
 By: Miles_151 : October 30th, 2018-07:59
The old VRF days were savage. M.
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And that’s why....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-08:02
..... guys who only wish to slag off the brand and spout inaccurate BS won’t be participating in the forum.
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Agreed. It was more to line their own pockets in those days.

 
 By: Miles_151 : October 30th, 2018-08:27
M.
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No match for Vacheron Constantin

 
 By: mohammad : October 30th, 2018-00:14
Vacheron Constantin was the King and pp never even dreamt of reaching Vacheron Constantin level till early seventies . Kings and Emperors always comissioned Vacheron watches . It is the Oldest continuious manufacturer since 1755 with unmatched Royal Herit... 
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If I may say so,

 
 By: sham1 : October 30th, 2018-00:47
Kings and Emperors also commissioned Cartiers and Breguets but that does not mean that these watches were a match for Vacheron and Patek. If Vacherons was the King as you put it, I am quite astonished why this has not been recognised at watch auctions whe... 
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I own both . But ,

 
 By: mohammad : November 3rd, 2018-23:09
Vacheron Constantin is the Founder of Haute Horology and it`s Royal Heritage is unmatched by pp , but the latter has higher resale value and higher prices paid in auctions due to : 1- better advertising 2-it`s own staff who set high bids . The second poin... 
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Thank you for your reply Mohammad

 
 By: sham1 : November 4th, 2018-00:04
I do not believe Patek do well at auctions and have a better resale value due to advertisements since many brands like Rolex, Omega and Longines do advertise a lot more extensively and are also major sponsors of various events and yet only Rolex do well a... 
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Excellent reply

 
 By: CastorKrieg : November 20th, 2018-23:35
Absolute comparisons like 'Founder of Haute Horlogy' make no sense - both companies are more than 150 years old which gives us sufficient time horizon to compare. Royal families bought both Patek, Vacheron, and many other brands. For some people appreciat... 
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Thank you CastorKrieg :-)

 
 By: sham1 : November 21st, 2018-04:44
We are fortunate to be living in a period where we are spoiled for choice when it comes to the watches on offer, be it from a large brand or from a small independent. Yes this can sometimes give us a real dilemma when deciding what to buy but it is a plea... 
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What is the Patek forum a basis for?

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 30th, 2018-00:52
Imran, Many thanks for this post. You set out to clarify and inform using knowledge rather than unfounded opinion. I think that when one is discussing Patek Philippe watches, there is a growing tendency for people who have never owned a Patek, never will ... 
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+1000 [nt]

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : October 30th, 2018-05:03
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Great report.

 
 By: russell996 : October 30th, 2018-02:14
Can I just check one thing, from my very limited knowledge of metals I actually thought German silver is harder than brass not softer (due to the higher Nickel content of German/Nickel silver) and hence the requirement to Rhodium coat brass? Many perceive... 
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It's not actually just the hardness per se...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 30th, 2018-11:51
A metal actually needs to be of a certain hardness and elasticity in order to be polished. For instance, only Grade 5 Titanium can be polished, and that's due to the hardness. However, gold can be polished (it can be done in 24K but more normally done in ... 
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Thanks 🙏🏽 for explaining so eloquently! [nt]

 
 By: Miranda : October 30th, 2018-15:33
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Lange vs Patek finishing

 
 By: galt : November 16th, 2018-12:28
At the very least, it is highly debatable if not frankly false that the Patek finish exceeds that of Lange. Maybe you could say they are close ..but the custom engrabed balance cock and the chatons. There really is nothing comparable from Patek at anythin... 
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Imran you don’t say that much but when you do we should all listen.

 
 By: Miles_151 : October 30th, 2018-02:38
Beautifully articulated as usual. Your love for Patek and all Watches is infectious. If only we could make our livings out of this great obsession of ours. M.
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Thank you for this post

 
 By: benlee338 : October 30th, 2018-06:46
So next time I encountered another PP "hater", I'll just showed them this post.
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When you're ready to step-up from Pateks....

 
 By: enjoythemusic : October 30th, 2018-07:56
F.P.Journe. There are also many independents that truly do exceptional work. The mess of decoration on current Pateks is not uniform nor seems 'organized'. Also seems Patek is using larger bits to decorate movement, and using fewer / larger bridges to cut...  
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To quote directly from the great man Msr Journe

 
 By: Miranda : October 30th, 2018-15:38
Philippe Dufour told me [Francois-Paul Journe] just the other day that my finishing quality is now good enough (laughter). I can do even better, but my production cost may increase by 3 times. I have no intention to make my collectors pay through their no... 
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Thanks Imran for the post and laying out your observations. Our common passion in watches, especially Patek given its high status price, is quite a...

 
 By: GLau : October 30th, 2018-08:03
personal topic. As we participate in this forum, we should stay as objective and courteous as possible although our thoughts are personal and subject to our biases due to backgrounds and cultures. As long as we communicate in a friendly manner, I am happy... 
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Good to see some fiery passion on here! [nt]

 
 By: pv45 : October 30th, 2018-12:43
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may I can ask

 
 By: Passionata_george : October 31st, 2018-04:49
-"So visually the anglage is lost partly to the plating, but also do you want anglage for the sake of anglage? Its purpose is not be just aesthetically pleasing, but to prevent wear over time." do we talk about the anglage on the dridges and plates ?If so...  
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I feel I have to correct an error in your post....

 
 By: Velociphile - No longer in the building : October 31st, 2018-07:21
ADs (plural) not AD's V
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LOL I stand corrected sir! [nt]

 
 By: Miranda : October 31st, 2018-13:04
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I would like some more challenging inside and outside angles

 
 By: Patekphilippecollector : November 16th, 2018-18:53
In a movement to show that PP aren't afraid to spend time on this finish versus the easier rounded bridges
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Excellent and important post!

 
 By: CastorKrieg : November 20th, 2018-23:23
We can all disagree, but Internet can bring the worst in people and exaggerate certain things to an extreme - as Miranda and other people pointed out in this thread Patek provides unmatched 'complete package' from a product standpoint, heritage/history, v... 
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Great post

 
 By: rcg412 : November 22nd, 2018-15:22
agree patek finishing, attention to detail, etc. Nothing is better. I thing the vintage pieces stand out because they feel like more labors of love than the modern pieces. They just feel, and look, special. In a time when almost all males wore timepieces.... 
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This was a great post and I learned something new. Thanks [nt]

 
 By: @Patek_Ambassador : January 20th, 2020-23:28
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