Richard Mille

Jul 14, 2020,15:15 PM

Same thing happens with Richard Mille.. I think the manufactures look the other way because it keeps the value of their brand up... and creates a lot of buzz-- like this post likely contributes. 

Not that I agree it is the right thing to do.  There is no reason Patek or Richard Mille could not produce more of the popular brands if they wanted to. 

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This bothers me..

 By: roger.goodgion : July 14th, 2020-12:32
Sorry, but this rubs me the wrong way. PP ADs won’t sell me a watch because they want to provide them to their “ valuable customers.. who then flip it the very next day. I know it’s all part of the game. But I think it’s BS to sell to someone who is just ...  

I could not agree more.

 By: xyz123abc : July 14th, 2020-12:47
If a Rolex dealer sells to a number of “flippers” over time - he will get a visit from Switzerland for a serious talk about selecting his customers.

It is happened.

 By: xyz123abc : July 14th, 2020-13:44
More than once.

yes it happened

 By: Quan : July 17th, 2020-19:16
but the AD still wont give those sport model

If that's the case...

 By: Boris : July 14th, 2020-16:59
...then someone need to explain why they are not paying a visit to some of the biggest AD chains in Hong Kong. Because, clearly, the Steel Sports models they receive are instantly flipped to the numerous grey dealers operating in this city. My theory is t... 

This is what I am hearing.

 By: watch-er : July 15th, 2020-12:57
Most of Patek is very soft right now and efforts are being made to move pm strap models through bundling with the steel. Not sure about the AD direct sales to dealers as that is strictly forbidden by Patek. What is hard to understand is the flipping so so... 


 By: anaroku : July 14th, 2020-12:52
It’s a headache problem.

I completely understand your frustration...

 By: Cpt Scarlet : July 14th, 2020-12:59
Unfortunately, this is a disappointing reality of life. I never expect loyalty from people that would do anything for money.

Maybe Patek wants a small number of pieces to make there way to secondary market sellers

 By: descartes1 : July 14th, 2020-13:07
The way that market is now it is a great way to create buzz and perceived value.

Makes perfect sense to me. [nt]

 By: Brandon Skinner : July 14th, 2020-20:52

I strongly suspect this is fine with Patek.

 By: mkvc : July 14th, 2020-13:11
If a single example of the watch makes it onto the gray market at an extremely high price, that helps the company. If many examples get onto the gray market and the gray market price is relatively low, that is a problem, but I trust Patek made sure that w... 

:-) [nt]

 By: psfparis : July 24th, 2020-02:54

Alas. [nt]

 By: amanico : July 14th, 2020-23:04

Not surprised on dealers looking for a quick flip...

 By: WatchAl : July 14th, 2020-13:55
They are watch resellers, I’m truly interested in the resale price they want. (I have no interest in purchasing, just curious on the price gouge) -Alan

Doesn’t bother me

 By: vitalsigns : July 14th, 2020-14:01
European Watch probably buys lots of Pateks from dealers. That would qualify them as a good customer, no? Yes, the watch didn’t go directly to a passionate collector, but the Patek dealer who sold this piece is probably making a reasonable decision here. ... 

I also could care less. But the hypocrisy of Patek bothers me.

 By: BigAppleBill : July 14th, 2020-18:21
For example, European Watch Co has at least one Tiffany whale who sells a lot of Tiffany-stamped Pateks directly to them. In the past couple of years EWC has listed and sold multiple new Tiffany-stamped Pateks. It would be easy to trace the flipper/source... 

I think many brands are more than willing...

 By: vitalsigns : July 14th, 2020-18:54
to turn a blind eye to grey market practices as long as it boosts sales and doesn’t hurt overall brand image too much. Dirty not-so-secret part of the industry.

It makes me mad too...

 By: Clueless_Collector : July 14th, 2020-14:14
Surprised there are no name written on the Attestation certificate or maybe it’s blanked out by photoshop? I heard and thought this 6007 comes with the owners name printed because they were “selected” for allocation. Totally agree the flippers should be b... 

Good one, VIP flippers :) [nt]

 By: Clueless_Collector : July 14th, 2020-14:16

LOL! [nt]

 By: amanico : July 14th, 2020-14:26


 By: Ted-Lo : July 14th, 2020-14:44
I am finding a hard time getting my laughter out. Just kidding!!!👍🤣🤣🤣😂😂

;) [nt]

 By: amanico : July 14th, 2020-15:47

I think this is the mechanism

 By: Cookies : July 14th, 2020-19:13
Collusion between dealers and flippers. Dealers get a nice commission under the table. Just my suspicion.

Its sad, but we have to live with it.

 By: Pythagoras : July 14th, 2020-14:33
Its business as usual for Patek and also for the AD. Flipper or not, special pieces are allocated to those who buy a LOT. Allocating watches for 'true watch aficionados' is a very good idea, but from a business standpoint, it may not always be the case.

This is obviously unfortunate, but with 1,000 pieces on the market it's also, very realistically, predictable. And if you check C24 there's another 6007 on sale, from a different seller ;-)

 By: FabR : July 14th, 2020-14:39
I believe the C24 seller is also active on our CM, even though he hasn't posted the 6007 here. What I can tell you is that if Patek finds out the owner of the watch on sale at EWC (for instance by buying it back, which periodically happens), that owner wi... 

It was not “my hand.”

 By: Ted-Lo : July 14th, 2020-14:43

Professor, no, sorry, I had a double's hand here.

 By: Ted-Lo : July 14th, 2020-14:55
You know, "Beautiful Mind" style.


 By: Ted-Lo : July 14th, 2020-15:23
That’s what I have been trying to tell you!!

😂😂😱 [nt]

 By: FabR : July 14th, 2020-15:54

Absolutely not, Bayer (spelled correctly) is the name of a mathematician entirely unrelated to Patek...(we were joking in reference to a previous thread on a movie)!😂😉

 By: FabR : July 15th, 2020-00:57
As far as I know right now, there is no information about the AD or the original customer of this 6007😉Cheers.

Richard Mille

 By: mark1958a : July 14th, 2020-15:15
Same thing happens with Richard Mille.. I think the manufactures look the other way because it keeps the value of their brand up... and creates a lot of buzz-- like this post likely contributes. Not that I agree it is the right thing to do. There is no re... 

It's a common dealer tactic to offer watches they don't have in inventory; thinking they'll go find one once they have a serious customer.

 By: patrick_y : July 14th, 2020-15:38
While this Bostonian dealer has the watch; don't be so sure that every dealer has the actual watch they're advertising...

I absolutely agree...

 By: Cpt Scarlet : July 14th, 2020-15:42
It’s a common tactic.

And we shouldn't believe everything we read from a C24 dealer.

 By: patrick_y : July 14th, 2020-22:19
It's possible it's true. But it's also possible it's not true.

by the way

 By: anaroku : July 14th, 2020-15:49
Des anyone Please tell me the word [AD] does it mean [authorised dealer]? or [authorised distributor]? I have been worried about this abbreviation

AD is just informal use, and I think most people mean "authorized dealer" by it, meaning the place where they buy a watch. However, to be precise, it should be "Authorized Retailer" (AR?).

 By: FabR : July 14th, 2020-16:07
With Patek, the term "Distributor" indicates a national/regional branch that coordinates (among other things) local distribution and sales. There are 12 of those in the world, and (usually) they do not sell watches directly. The shops/boutiques that actua... 


 By: anaroku : July 14th, 2020-18:19
dear FabR, I,m appreciate your kind explanation and I also think so

We live in an Unfair world

 By: SALMANQ8 : July 14th, 2020-16:03
Where people who take short cuts make a lot of money and those who work hard and obey the law struggle all their lives, is that fair? Like Art, collectible cars and other items that can be moved around through logistics, watches are used to recycle money ... 

I am glad that I have no time for Patek

 By: Boris : July 14th, 2020-17:04
One less thing to be aggravated about.

Maybe someone legitimately bought it and then...

 By: r0gue : July 14th, 2020-17:38
he/she subsequently decided the movement is too small, the silk screen over the rear crystal looks like hell, the date window looks like an eyesore afterthought, the bezel looks like an ill-proportioned chrome steering wheel and that blue dials are overdo... 

LOL! Good one. [nt]

 By: India Whiskey Charlie : July 14th, 2020-17:42

😂😂😂😂 [nt]

 By: India Whiskey Charlie : July 14th, 2020-19:02

:))))))))) [nt]

 By: amanico : July 14th, 2020-23:05

This unfortunately is the new norm

 By: sham1 : July 14th, 2020-18:19
I myself was rejected over this piece and in Patek's defence, it is difficult to know if its loyal customers will flip the watch if past loyalty is the yardstick. What is annoying is the attitude of the used dealers. I know of at least two reputable UK de... 

I gave up on the big name brands a while back.

 By: JerryW : July 14th, 2020-18:23
I am much happier in the independent watchmakers world. The buying experience much better and the watches are much cooler.

Hi Salman. Sorry for the slow reply.

 By: JerryW : September 4th, 2020-19:54
Hope all is well with you and your family also. Best, Jerry

This post.

 By: Jke67245 : July 14th, 2020-19:20
A lot of well thought out, two sided, logical responses to the original post. One very clear conclusion is that Patek gets a lot of free advertising and significant benefits from flippers.

Saddening and maddening to see

 By: tjw_keith : July 14th, 2020-19:58
It makes one wonder if more can be done to deter flippers.

Dear Roger

 By: Brandon Skinner : July 14th, 2020-21:03
Can I ask you a question? Do you honestly love this reference, and if so what do you personally find so compelling about it? If it were regular edition would you want it just as bad? No harm meant, just curious how much importance is the limitation in you... 

Actually. I am Luke warm to this reference.

 By: roger.goodgion : July 15th, 2020-10:53
I am not attempting to buy this reference in anyway. But to see it come out and get flipped within days makes me upset because I know there are people out their that would love and appreciate the watch. Selling after a few years I get, but this current si... 

Thanks Roger

 By: Brandon Skinner : July 15th, 2020-11:19
I appreciate your response.

Watches maybe passion to us, but to the sales and ADs, watches are their livelihood.

 By: masy7 : July 14th, 2020-21:19
I have been supporting the same few ADs throughout my few years of collecting and I have no problem whatsoever getting my hands on most of the coveted pieces at retail. There is no under table dealing or secret & quick way to build a rapport with thes... 

I am a fan of PP dress watches.......

 By: jimmycool_007 : July 14th, 2020-21:42
But shouldn't PP worry that the craze on its sports models and new steel dress watches dilute the image and appeal of its precious metal dress watches, its bread and butter? We have seen them being sold as bundles to the highly desired models, and quite m... 

I know from experience and as a fact that Switzerland does not condone this and will take action when necessary. They have many people scanning these

 By: Patekphilippecollector : July 14th, 2020-22:12
Dealers and if they dont buy the watch there is lots of ways that they get details. They take action against the AD for not selling to the right the UK this resulted in 6 months suspension of deliveries for one and loss of agency f it happens ... 

😱😂😂 [nt]

 By: FabR : July 15th, 2020-02:34
No message body

I find the infatuation quite bizarre!!! [nt]

 By: Patekphilippecollector : July 15th, 2020-03:12

I thought ...a bit creepy [nt]

 By: Patekphilippecollector : July 15th, 2020-06:33

The only thing that really bothers me, is that Patek still forces their customers to have their names and addresses written on the papers.

 By: nafetS : July 14th, 2020-22:44
You might think that‘s not related. I think it is. Because I don‘t see an effect of it on the secondary market and I don‘t like it as a „first hand customer“.

Not address [nt]

 By: Patekphilippecollector : July 14th, 2020-23:39

They dont have to put on your adress [nt]

 By: Patekphilippecollector : July 14th, 2020-23:47

Or maybe Patek doesn’t want you to sell

 By: TheCollector1688 : July 16th, 2020-15:48
Maybe the address is on there so you would not want to sell your watches...

I surrender [nt]

 By: Patekphilippecollector : July 16th, 2020-20:58

Persons that purchase new watches from ADs need to understand they are benefitting from breach of contract by the AD. Most if not all of the high-end brands operate selective distribution

 By: ChetBaker : July 14th, 2020-23:21
networks that allow them to create a “closed system” ie AD can sell to end users or other ADs admitted to the network only. If the AD sells to a grey dealer that is not authorized by the brand (without an individual buyer acting as a conduit) this is a br... 

I hate it but we can’t control it .

 By: Watchonthewrist : July 15th, 2020-01:13
Just never pay above retail for a new watch .

I looked at the site today ( 15th)

 By: chris7509 : July 15th, 2020-03:10
and the watch is not visible there anymore ...

you are right it is under the "incoming" section not the PP one

 By: chris7509 : July 15th, 2020-05:40
but yeah still there :'( ... What a joke, last time i was at the salon and was presented the watch they asked me not to take pictures ... .(it was after the release ...)

And another one

 By: chris7509 : July 15th, 2020-05:47
on Another happy few that will earn some USD with his allocated PP ... Already "on hold" .. Another flipper ...  

It is definitely not right to sell this watch immediately.

 By: DOCSF : July 15th, 2020-06:27
Since there are 1000 pieces we will see more coming to the grey market in the next few weeks/months.

I'm sure this will be the case, as we said it's impossible that a small percentage of these 1,000 clients won't "misbehave", it's just a fact of life.

 By: FabR : July 15th, 2020-06:45
However, another fact of life is, anyone who flips this or any other Patek immediately for profit (or even within 2 to 3 years), if discovered, will no longer be allocated another watch. They were honored with something important and/or exclusive, and did... 

Hi Roger, it is very....

 By: GLau : July 15th, 2020-07:01
SAD 😢 to see this type of behavior, especially for the passionate Patek fans ! IMO, Horology at the end of the day is still a business for ADs. As such, big clients are their bread and butter and they get allocated the coveted watches such as the 6007 and... 

Hi .. I would like to test that theory as I do not believe it to be true

 By: : July 15th, 2020-18:22
Would the moderators allow a thread of all limited release PP from the 1990's specifically from the 150 the anniversary pieces to the present Let us try and list every special limited edition with the list price and the current price- I think we will all ... 

Hi, to clarify, I wrote....

 By: GLau : July 16th, 2020-11:06
Overall, Patek LEs are highly sought after in the “BEGINNING OF THEIR RELEASES” no matter what. I agree that LEs may not be highly sought after over a number of years. I was saying that LEs usually are highly sought after when they are first released. Hop... 

That is so true. The initial lift in price occurs on release when the watch filters through to the grey market but very few continue to increase. I have started making a spreadsheet of all limited anniversary

 By: : July 16th, 2020-14:23
pieces which I will post on a new thread. Hopefully people will fill in missing information such as initial retail price and current price Regards Julian

Just to be clear, if you would like to present a list of Patek's limited/anniversary editions, I think that'd be a good project and one that can certainly provoke an interesting discussion here.

 By: FabR : July 17th, 2020-07:44
However, as per (very well-known) forum guidelines, we are certainly not going to discuss any market prices, let alone their evolution during the years. You are most welcome to include the MSRP (i.e., the original retail price) of these watches, if you wo... 

Great👍😉 [nt]

 By: FabR : July 17th, 2020-15:43

I also agree generally Patek limited editions are highly sought after at the beginning of their release.

 By: DOCSF : July 17th, 2020-03:34
However that applies to many new references at the beginning of their release. References such as 5235G, 5524G and 5370P were very sought after at the beginning of their release.

Don’t lose sleep over it Roger

 By: Mr.Gatsby : July 15th, 2020-08:32
It’s all within expectations. Plus, what is so nice about this watch? There are many other examples that are worth collecting too. Personally I like the 6006g, I feel that one is quite underrated for a quirky looking calatrava with some history... WTs are... 

Obviously I don't know what goes on behind the scenes at the Rolex or PP front office...

 By: YpJ : July 15th, 2020-09:29
But from my experience, I learned that there's no such thing as a waiting list and it's really about how much you spend at an AD on "less popular" models to be considered for an extremely popular model. When I last visited an AD (I will just say in the gr... 

Well Said

 By: farkbinder01212 : July 15th, 2020-10:21
IMHO, it is the unsavory manipulation of capitalism. If I ran my manufacturing business like this, would have been insolvant 30 years ago.

I agree 100%

 By: BuffaloWatch : July 15th, 2020-11:39
Makes you wonder how "upset" PP are by this practice.


 By: anaroku : July 15th, 2020-11:50
Dose any one,please tell me the word of {IMO} What does it mean?

IMO = In...

 By: GLau : July 15th, 2020-12:05
my opinion

what is In?

 By: anaroku : July 15th, 2020-14:30
thank you GLau but what is [In...]? dont you mind explaining the matte in detail

IMO also written as IMHO

 By: roger.goodgion : July 15th, 2020-14:43
IMO: in my opinion Or IMHO: in my humble opinion Both phrases are used when expressing an opinion. So the reader can infer that the author is not making a declaration of fact. It is also used to be polite, especially in forums like this with multiple lang... 

Oh thank you

 By: anaroku : July 15th, 2020-20:37
I understand! Thank you


 By: watch-er : July 16th, 2020-13:44
The watch is off their site. Not listed anywhere in incoming, new arrivals or sold.

Maybe Patek bought it

 By: TheCollector1688 : July 16th, 2020-15:54
Could be the reason it is off the site...Patek purchased it back

Probably sold ;-) The one on C24 is given as "reserved", hence likely to be sold as well...

 By: FabR : July 17th, 2020-07:27
If someone who just got rejected for a watch that as many as 1,000 other people are getting, still wants it at 2x retail or more...then Wow! ;-) Obviously all of this is good press for Patek, but frankly, between the flipper, the AD, and the new buyer it'... 

Thank you everyone for contributing to the conversation.

 By: roger.goodgion : July 17th, 2020-12:27
I’m glad I got to hear so many thoughts on this subject as well as others first hand conversations with ADs and the like.

It's "funny"...

 By: 1WatchMan : September 6th, 2020-01:44
But the watch is already "circulating" on the gray market and I haven't even received a response from my AD to my request. Sad but true... I may need to change of AD, but I also wonder how delivery timings are planned, as I usually see massive differences...