F.P. Journe

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/watches-online-collectors-edition/f-p-journe-platinum-octa-auto-157/92993

Just wondering if anyone know if this is one of the mysterious prototypes? It doesn't say in the description but it seems a bit crazy that it's going for USD130k as I type with 2+ days left to go. Or is it because it's dial? Do we have an estimated # of RDM with brass movement in yellow/salmon/grey dials? If it is due to the dial are there particular reasons why yellow seems to be THAT much special?

We are also unaware of any yellow gold dials with a rose gold case, and have only come across a small handful of watches with a rose gold dial in a platinum case (which should not be confused with oxidised yellow gold dials which appear rose). All other combinations are known to exist, with the yellow gold dial and platinum case appearing to be the most common."

So, what gives? Thought previously most expensive RDMs were at high 40k's. This seems to be quite a sudden departure from that level.

This message has been edited by ChristianDK on 2020-08-04 06:16:08

..plus the change in color due to patina, if we follow the official description? Still, it seems hard to justify how patina can essentially triple the value of a watch, no matter how unique it looks because of it...😉 Let’s see if someone knowledgeable with this market has a good explanation👍Cheers.

I agree with all the above. But THIS particular one going for 130k when last known traded was at high 40's?

Just wanted to see why THIS one is so special. It's not a prototype, yellow dials are just common, then why? Don't forget this is the most basic Octa basically.

130k just seems way out of whack. No?

It is possible this result is simply an outlier (e.g., the case of two bidders who, for whatever reason, desperately needed this specific watch in their lives...), but as far as I know, it might also be some intentional form of speculation which will take place over multiple auctions, or more optimistically, the sign that collectors are now willing to bet on FPJ as a brand -- well beyond some obvious speculation on a steel CB...

When the resonance hammered at 250k late last year people were laughing at what crazy buyer paid that much. He is now almost flat (though of course could have executed a lot better).

For me personally the ceiling is when you start competing with big hitting pateks and other riff raff at 100k usd. So yes this rdm is nuts when I could buy eg a 3970 or 5170p instead

but a lot of people frame this as an either/or, whereas in fact for these buyers it’s probably “why not both?” in which case prices can stay elevated given there’s literally no more supply

but he doesn't listen. Is it really just coincidence that Journe prices started to skyrocket right when Journe was made a sub-Forum on WPS again? I, for one, don't think so...

You see it on Hodinkee, A collected man, and other vintage dealers writing articles, doing videos on FPJ. We came back at a fortunate time at WPS. Independents have become very hot and the traditional brands are bringing so little new to the table. Brands under the group umbrellas, the charm has been drained by the taking over by the spread sheet guys.
FPJ 1) has the quality and the originality To compete against the big guys 2) is collectible by having a broad selection of interesting watches where most independents you may want one or two of their pieces 3) bridges the gap between a brand and removes a great deal of risk by making a big investment in an independent watchmaker who may not be around forever. There are probably other reasons as well. This is just top of my head. 

And it is great on the one hand but upsetting on the other. I, too, had pieces I wanted to add still (older 38mm ones) that are now out of reach financially.

Since he posted the series with the trolls, Journe prices skyrocketed.
Kidding aside - I echo what Christian said.

now that they're back in Iceland. They can't defend themselves.

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I’m having them back in January. Let’s see what they have to say about your accusations then.

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But its beginning to be a pattern. I think it is much too rapid. We have seen other brands explode suddenly and then fall back. Don’t forget things can go both ways.

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I get all the plus points of the watch but at 130K USD? Nah. First of all, we will be subjected to the anchoring effect of the hefty price tag. Subconsciously we will think the Journes are gonna be 6 digit watches in value. Not quite. It defers from individual to individual. And secondly I always default back to looking at relative value. At 130K USD, I think we are talking tourbillons, MRs, PC chronos and indies that are made with the utmost refinement. The days of collecting FP Journe is over for me.

I think the RQ in an excellent example of something very worth collecting with a reasonable price tag - for what it is. It is But I understand what you are saying. There are not many bargains any more. So it Can feel a bit like “game over” in the vintage departement.

That collecting will be mostly limited to new models. The older ones have so much charm and intrigue to them to me. Hopefully FP adds something smaller back to the line up, but not holding my breath.
What’s even more disappointing is that most models will be 95% boutique only and for those of us with strong AD relationships just won’t be able to get much going forward.

Thats been the direction for a good while and I think It will continue.

I’m generally reluctant to pay when it hits 6 digits — not in this climate. Maybe I’m wrong and I have to think of these Journes like tech stocks. But it will take me a long while to accept what the new reality is. For now I’m just happy to own my Chronometre Optimum and not add anymore Journes. The independent route to me is far more interesting and compelling in terms of value, though the risks higher.

Glad I got my two when I did. I would be totally priced out now. And I only bought both of them in March/April.
So much for COVID bringing hot models back to earth (not that I expected them to to be honest).

I bought mine in October last year. And the meteoric rise in price over the short span of time defies logic. COVID-19 in some aspects made some of the rich even richer and the poor even poorer. It’s a tough reality.

I personally don't see it as a norm. This is just an early RDM, nothing else (it seems so far, still). If even this can fetch a 6 digit sum, what does it imply for other models. It just does not make sense for all other FPJs to also trade at 6 digits.
And so going back to trying to figure out why just this ONE particular example is going for 6 digits, assuming this is just an anomaly.
Or perhaps it's probably not about FPJs, but somehow two bidders are going hard for just this one for their own personal reasons (belonged to his/her loved ones?). I guess we'll never know...

We try to determine causal relationships because it appeals to us however a lot things in life are random. I think the 6 figure RDM is a random occurrence which I will not try to justify (my friend would justify an unexplained price spike during auctions as money laundering). However I think the one thing you and I both agree here is that the price don’t make sense for the said watch and hence we can readily move onto something else. Case close

Just one of those things in life where everything is aligned for the seller to get this lucky and see a surprise sale. I bet if I tried to sell my RDM it'll get all kinds of low ball offers instead lol

Such is life.

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RDM’s are going for at least 80K these days. This is not an anomaly as I’ve seen several pieces exchange hands privately. Some as high as 125k+. The prototype went for 200-250k at auction last year.