Piaget

any enlightenment on the below would be very much appreciated.

i've been trying to sort out the ins and outs of the ultra-thin watchmaking records, but i'm more confused now than when i started.

so the calibre 1200P/1208P (at 2.35mm) is the thinnest self-winding movement currently on the market. i think i've got that straight.

the reason why the 12P (2.3mm) doesn't have that title is because it's no longer in production. right? did it ever have that title in the first place? the 1960 Piaget automatic powered by 12P did set a record for thinnest automatic timepiece, but did that "thinnest" moniker also apply to the movement itself? no source i've referred to seems to have that information.

also, i'm slightly confused as to why the 1208P is actually slightly thicker than the 12P. is it because of the small seconds on the Altiplano 43mm? but there isn't a small seconds on the anniversary Altiplano 1200P and they're basically the same movement. so their current thinnest in-house production movement is actually thicker than their 50-year-old equivalent? surely this is... pretty counterintuitive.

also, the 9P (2mm) was supposed to be the world's thinnest manual movement when it debuted in 1957, but wasn't that position already taken by JLC's calibre 803 (1.64mm)? and what about VC's 1955 calibre 1003 (also 1.64mm)?

i really don't get it...

Welcome to the Piaget forum!  Give me a beat to look into your post more thoroughly and see what I can dig up for you!  Are you considering a Piaget?  My favorite is the Altiplano Double Jeu.  Do you have a favorite from the current collection?

Cheers,
Daos

and thanks for helping me sort my questions out! it's just really hard to keep all these designations straight, especially when discussing the timepieces in question.

as for my favourite, i have to say it's the anniversary edition wg altiplano with black dial. absolutely stunning. i never quite grasped the appeal of the double jeu though, would you care to explain why it's your particular favourite?

As for why I love the Double Jeu, please check out my previous post if you have a second!    Have a good one!

piaget.watchprosite.com

Cheers,
Daos

...into their past, present and future in response to your post.  You had asked (and hopefully I interpreted your questions appropriately):

1) Was there ever a time when the 12P (2.3mm) held the record for thinnest automatic movement (as opposed to thinnest automatic encased watch)?

The answer is YES.  In 1960 the 12P broke the record for thinnest automatic movement.  At that time it was indeed the thinnest automatic movement in production, and if it was still being made today its proportions would continue to hold the record.  Piaget currently manufactures the thinnest self-winding mechanical movement at 2.35mm.
 
2) Why is the 1208P actually thicker than the 12P?  Is it because of the small seconds on the Altiplano 43mm?

As you correctly posited in your original post, the difference in thickness is NOT due to the small seconds complication.  Piaget decided to make the 1200P/1208P thicker for 3 reasons:

- A thicker rotor was crafted to increase winding power;
- The 12P during its lifetime had been used in limited quantities, and Piaget now desires to use these successor calibers to the 12P in a larger number of pieces in the future;
- These movements, like the 430P or 500P, will serve as the basis for a new movement family powering an increasing number of complications.  With this in mind, Piaget sought to conceive of an even more robust movement than the 12P to enhance reliability for long term use.

3)  Always seeking to do better than is necessary, Piaget has made a number of improvements to caliber 1200P/1208P that make them better than the original 12P.  Expertise gained through 50 years of research, construction, and engineering in the realm of ultra-thin movements has allowed Piaget to improve...

- the winding power of the rotor;
- the power reserve (42 hours vs. 40 hours);
- the precision (3 Hz vs. 2.75 Hz);
- the stability (2.9 mg/cm2);
- Suppression of the bridge visible on the 12P above the rotor (used to maintain it);
- the finish, with sunburst-brushed wheels, a dedicated regulator, the rotor engraved with circular Côtes de Genève with drawn sides.

In conclusion, with the 1200P/1208P Piaget has created more reliable and improved movements that will allow them to move forward and address the challenges of future watchmaking with confidence.

I hope this information is of interest to you.  I extend my thanks to our good friends at Piaget for their kind assistance in enlightening us.

Cheers,
Daos

That really helped clear things up.

No message body

Hi, Superfly,

Thanks, Daos, Piaget, for the clarifications so far.

"also, the 9P (2mm) was supposed to be the world's thinnest manual movement when it debuted in 1957, but wasn't that position already taken by JLC's calibre 803 (1.64mm)? and what about VC's 1955 calibre 1003 (also 1.64mm)?"

I too would be curious to read the explanation of the claim for the 9P - I'm a big fan of the 12p micro-rotor automatic (the thinnest full rotor movement title is still held by the famous and justly legendary JLC/AP/VC cal. 920/2120/1120) and like the 9P very much (a family member owns a Piaget powered by the 9P)

But indeed, the JLC 803/AP 2003/VC 1003 held the title of thinnest manual at 1.64 and I'm not sure how the 9P took that crown away?

Cheers,

TM

Thanks for your questions.

Cheers,
Daos