Comments:
GP Laureato Olimpico 8017 - suspicious listing?
This seems to be one of the few places where one can get a lot of information on this underrated brand, so I rely on your expertise, gents...
Compared with others, including one posted by Blomman here the 'olimpico' is missing, and the limited edition number as well. What gives? Other details seem to be correct (fonts, positioning, dial side, the brushed/polished surfaces and beveled edges) as far as I can see...
A few 8017s seem to be popping up for sale, and rather on the bargain side as well. Really want that type of piece as well.
I particularly like the blue (though wouldn't mind the black), and this listing on Chrono caught my attention.
Except... the caseback:
Compared with others, including one posted by Blomman here the 'olimpico' is missing, and the limited edition number as well. What gives? Other details seem to be correct (fonts, positioning, dial side, the brushed/polished surfaces and beveled edges) as far as I can see...
I'm waiting for better pictures from the vendor. I suppose this would be a major red flag? (though again, who would make a detailed fake of a watch from 1996?? I don't get what this could be).
Warm welcome here
Hi,
welcome to our forum and we will try to help. I think overall your assessment is right, the watch looks overall genuine and even the box is an original Laureato Olimpico box.
The case back is indeed a bit suspicious. I owned two 8017 and both had the "Olimpico" underneath the Laureato on the case back and the numbering always ended with a "/999"
I know there are two "versions" of the 8017. Earlier versions had a different bracelet with stiffer links and a single folding mechanism. Later versions had a more flexible bracelet and a double-folding clasp. I had one from each and both had the Olimpico. The one in the Ad appears to be the later version.
I'm not aware of another Laureato of that size that was not an Olimpico, so it cannot be a "swapped" case back.
So it is a bit of a mystery.
CC
welcome to our forum and we will try to help. I think overall your assessment is right, the watch looks overall genuine and even the box is an original Laureato Olimpico box.
The case back is indeed a bit suspicious. I owned two 8017 and both had the "Olimpico" underneath the Laureato on the case back and the numbering always ended with a "/999"
I know there are two "versions" of the 8017. Earlier versions had a different bracelet with stiffer links and a single folding mechanism. Later versions had a more flexible bracelet and a double-folding clasp. I had one from each and both had the Olimpico. The one in the Ad appears to be the later version.
I'm not aware of another Laureato of that size that was not an Olimpico, so it cannot be a "swapped" case back.
So it is a bit of a mystery.
CC
AFAIK, there are 2 versions
This one is not limited, but how many or additional infos are lacking.
This is the LE laureato olimpico, 999 made (hope so!)
This is the LE laureato olimpico, 999 made (hope so!)
The caseback doesn't match with the dial 'cause it's clearly an olimpico as marked on the counter at 6.
Good point
There was a black dial 8017 without Olimpico that looked like this
So possibly the case back or the entire watch was this model but the dial and hands belong to the Olimpico. So there is likely a mismatch. Is that a big concern? Maybe. You need to decide.
CC
So possibly the case back or the entire watch was this model but the dial and hands belong to the Olimpico. So there is likely a mismatch. Is that a big concern? Maybe. You need to decide.
CC
Thank you, will be cautious
Thank you very much for the welcome and the instant help.
It's not possible I think that the "entire watch" is the non-Olimpico 8017, since the one in the picture above doesn't have the octagonal bezel, has a different crown etc. This leads me to think that it possibly got repaired with a caseback (and movement?) from a non-Olimpico? Could be a mess in there, but only way to find out would be to take it in for service.
In short, it seems to be genuine, according to your and Mr Blomman's inputs, so I guess I will be cautious and talk to the vendor further. Hope to get some more high-res pictures. Again, big help, thanks a lot. I hope to be able to proudly display the watch here soon=)
It's not possible I think that the "entire watch" is the non-Olimpico 8017, since the one in the picture above doesn't have the octagonal bezel, has a different crown etc. This leads me to think that it possibly got repaired with a caseback (and movement?) from a non-Olimpico? Could be a mess in there, but only way to find out would be to take it in for service.
In short, it seems to be genuine, according to your and Mr Blomman's inputs, so I guess I will be cautious and talk to the vendor further. Hope to get some more high-res pictures. Again, big help, thanks a lot. I hope to be able to proudly display the watch here soon=)
The photo is a bad one
there was this exact dial in an Laureato 8017 case, but the case has a different finishing, the entire watch had a frosted finish.
So I also think that the blue for sale could be correct, except for the case back. Perhaps that will help in the negotiations
So I also think that the blue for sale could be correct, except for the case back. Perhaps that will help in the negotiations
We are the only ones who use to pay attention to details
99% of resellers ignore what they're selling (except few rolex and PP).
I guess the seller is in good faith, this is not a blockbuster, thus this flaw may turn into an advantage for the buyer.
I guess the seller is in good faith, this is not a blockbuster, thus this flaw may turn into an advantage for the buyer.
Really interesting argumentation!!
Would be curious to know what happened...I have personally seen others Laureato 80170 for sale around the world with the same caseback(without Olimpico on it)....has been swapped during a service made by a third part(not by GP supposedly)?...is it possible that GP made a version of this model without the Olimpico on the back?..
This is what I have found online...there are two case versions...the matte finished and the sand-blasted...there are mixed versions around that were completely sand-blasted and then refinished with a different case finish by polishing these parts...apparently this has not been done by GP...
Interesting...
I mean, a lot of things can happen in 20 years. However, for a limited model that doesn't seem to be too popular, those are some large irregularities.
More positive question - you guys know the bracelet, is it comfortable, does it feel like quality on the wrist? I thought I'd bite on this model because it seems like a lovely piece of well-finished steel, I can imagine it is smooth and has a pleasant weight. Basically I would get a VC Overseas chrono or Dual, but since this isn't my favourite type of watch, I don't see myself spending as much for it right now, and GP seems like a very good, underrated proposition.
More positive question - you guys know the bracelet, is it comfortable, does it feel like quality on the wrist? I thought I'd bite on this model because it seems like a lovely piece of well-finished steel, I can imagine it is smooth and has a pleasant weight. Basically I would get a VC Overseas chrono or Dual, but since this isn't my favourite type of watch, I don't see myself spending as much for it right now, and GP seems like a very good, underrated proposition.
The Bracelet...
answer is yes and no. As mentioned, the earlier version with a single folding mechanism and stiff links can be uncomfortable on a small wrist. The newer version of the bracelt with the double-folding is very comfortable. I would ask the seller to send you a photo of:
the folding clasp
the watch laying flat on the table (if it stands up then it's the stiff links, if it lies flat, then the flexible links
Also make sure it has sufficient links for your wrist size. Sourcing extra links is very hard.
CC
the folding clasp
the watch laying flat on the table (if it stands up then it's the stiff links, if it lies flat, then the flexible links
Also make sure it has sufficient links for your wrist size. Sourcing extra links is very hard.
CC
Cheers for the tips!
My wrist is very small - less than 16cm, so additional links shouldn't be a problem, I'll have to take it to get resized I suppose. Looks like quite a lot of sideways play in the bracelet in the very first picture, I hope it's not too loose actually. Anyhow, I'm pestering the vendor for now...
P.S. I don't know what's up with its box, but it looks rather... shabby. Another thing that made me think of fakes, although I suppose it's now disproved. Looks like the sides are coming apart at the corners... but then again, I wouldn't care that much, as long as the watch is ok.
Thing is, the Condition is listed as 2 'good', which is weird considering the watch itself looks pristine. I might have to call the guy on the phone to talk about all of this...
P.S. I don't know what's up with its box, but it looks rather... shabby. Another thing that made me think of fakes, although I suppose it's now disproved. Looks like the sides are coming apart at the corners... but then again, I wouldn't care that much, as long as the watch is ok.
Thing is, the Condition is listed as 2 'good', which is weird considering the watch itself looks pristine. I might have to call the guy on the phone to talk about all of this...
Something else...
I might be wrong but, from what I have understood, the vendor is just an intermediary.. it is not a brick and mortar business....I think..
Ciao!
We both know that when it's servicing time, maisons (like any other items manufacturer) reserve the right to unconditionally modify or change any part, according to their availabilities or else.
More likely, they use what they still hold, a blank or signed caseback it's (almost) the same!
We are the real historical memory
More likely, they use what they still hold, a blank or signed caseback it's (almost) the same!
We are the real historical memory
Understandable, and that's what I suspected
Still a bit strange that the dealer has no clue about it, but I guess I can't complain.
By the way, I tried to call up the GP service centre in Chaux de Fonds - it redirected me to Ambassadeurs in Geneva (which is sort of the fanciest AD around). Though they were nice and helpful, that's pretty funny - when I rang Parmigiani the other day with a service question, they put me through directly to someone from the watchmaking/service dept.
By the way, I tried to call up the GP service centre in Chaux de Fonds - it redirected me to Ambassadeurs in Geneva (which is sort of the fanciest AD around). Though they were nice and helpful, that's pretty funny - when I rang Parmigiani the other day with a service question, they put me through directly to someone from the watchmaking/service dept.
I do’t think you’ve too much to worry about on the authenticity side, the same watch is listed on eBay and their own website.
Oddly enough, the price is significantly more on the former, and still marginally higher on the latter!
I’m trying to figure out the case back situation, but I’m surmising that even if GP serviced it themselves, they might have used a generic case back if it needed replacing, rather than engrave a new one.
Why the case back would need replaced bar a major scoring of the metal, is a bit puzzling.
Maybe one of our members with a contact at GP could confirm if it was (still is) routine to replace damaged case backs with vanilla versions.
I’m coming to a conclusion that only those pieces made as part of the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, were numbered limited editions. The bi-metal one, and reinforced by this NOS one, suggests later production was devoid of the indications.
Good assumptions and links...
I was asking around about GP on WUS, remember someone there saying they had real issues with service in the 1990s. Maybe that's a product of those.
Laureato Olimpico caseback Mystery
"I’m coming to a conclusion that only those pieces made as part of the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, were numbered limited editions. The bi-metal one, and reinforced by this NOS one, suggests later production was devoid of the indications."
from what I have read ...
1. The last Olimpico made by GP was for the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. This was a combination of two model ... the Laureato and to Olimpico. Hence the Laureato Olimpico name.
2. This last edition was also a Limited Edition ... 999 pieces. Hence the there they all had the Olimpico name over the 6 o'clock on the dial and the words Laureato Olimpico on the case back and the xxx/999 engraved as well.
Note 1: This was happening in 1996 ... when the Laureato 8010 was created in limited numbers ... about 700. The Laureato 8010 was not a limited edition (not xxx/700 engraved etc) but it was produced in limited quantities.
The Macaluso family bought GP in 1992. So there was a lot happening to revive GP a that time. The Ferrari collection was the main pillar for GP at that time. Many, many versions made and even GP today can not say how many versions were made.
3. The Laureato Olimpico Limited Edition had 3 official colors for the dials .... Grey, Blue, White. All in full steel. I have seen a grey dial in full steel that does NOT have the engraving on the back with the Olimpico or the xxx/999 etc. on the caseback.
4. There were 2 version of the dials for the LE Laureato Olimpico:
a) Baton hands version
b) Arabic numeral version ... that I have only seen in with black dial. It too has the LE xxx/999 etc engraved on the caseback. It does not have a Clous de paris dial pattern. It uses a lacquer paint.
5. There is a version of the Laureato Olimpico, Baton hands, Blue dial, with the Olimpico on the dial, and the Olimpico on the caseback BUT no xxx/999 on the caseback.
And this was one was supposed number 1 out of the 999 LE ...
6. Not related directly but worth nothing, there are 2 version of the bracelets ... first came the one with the safety clasp and stiffer bracelet and then came the version without the safety clasp and it was a deployment clasp. It was not stiff. BTW, this was the same for the Laureato 8010 ... two version of the bracelet.
. So I can only guess that:
a) After the batch of the 999 were made, GP decided to make some more as limited production models. Hence me seeing the grey dial WITHOUT the Olimpico and the xxx/999 engraved on the back. From what I could see, it looks exactly the same as the LE version except for the engraving.
b) GP then decide to make some gold/steel case and bracelet versions. I have not seen one with the LE etc engraved on the back.
5) So the questions that remain unanswered (assuming the above guesses are correct):
a) When first producing the Laureato Olimpico, why did GP say it was a LE and then make production versions of it?
b) If they were no longer able to use the name Olimpico (copyright etc) then why do these production version still have the word Olimpico on the dial?
c) How many watches were produced of the non LE version? (
d) Can we assume that 999 pieces were made for the LE .... or what it more or less?
e) Or can we guess that GP started making the Laureato Olimpico with no xxx/999 on the caseback ... it just said "A No1" for example Stiff bracelet with safety clasp. They then had a review and said oh, we need to make a new bracelet. So they started making that version and in the process they said oh, let's add the "/999" after the Acier number.
Then GP said, oh lets make some of this /999 batch with Arabic numbers instead of Baton. And let's not use the Cloud de paris dial for this ...lets use lacquer black instead.
After all of this, GP then said, ok that was fun .... let's confuse everyone jut one more time and have another version that has baton hands, but does NOT have the Olimpico engraved on the caseback and lets also leave out the "/999"
... then as a final laugh, GP said, ok lets introduce a gold and steel version, blue dial but no LE or Olimpico on the caseback. (Note the "BJ No" ... instead of the "A No"
So there we go, is all super clear now ....
: )
Possible damage....
Looks like a rather nasty ding on the bezel at 10 o'clock, however weight because it appears differently in 2 different pictures... I'm sure resale value would be severely impacted there, especially since other Olimpicos (white and black) do not seem to have any major defects. It seems to be the only blue one around, though, a shame... Since I'm not sure I'll keep the watch long-term I really have to think about it.
Was this ever resolved...?
Some of the Laureato Olimpico that have the word Olimpico and the LE Number on the caseback and some not
.... I'm still seeing some without the word Olimpico and the xxx/999 on the caseback. I also notice that there seems to be some correlation between batches as I see some with the older bracelet style (stiffer and with the safety catch for the clasp) and some not.
Thanks,
Singapore Marc
No idea...
In the end I got one with the XXX/999 number.
I know that it was also serviced and its caseback was not replaced.
I know that it was also serviced and its caseback was not replaced.