Richard Mille

Owning a 27 as I do, I have to say that I'm not overly impressed with the introduction of their new offering at a fraction of the price. Whilst
it will be heavier due to the glass / case material etc, the all important movement is only a gram heavier?!!

Hmmmm. I wonder what the weight of the whole watch is?

Of course the 35 can never and will never be equal to the 27, but it represents something that is purer, including a central seconds hand that hacks thus even allowing precise time synchronisation to the second. You can't even do that with a tourbillon. ( Unless you are a Lange)

And the 27's movement is of course still the most impressive one! Tourbillon at 3.83grams!

The info that I receive states that this watch is 15 grams on top of the 27, so assuming that it is strap inclusive that comes to 35 grams. Maybe the reference number of RM 35 comes from there...

And btw, the movement is not 1gram heavier, its ONLY 0.47 grams heavier weighing in at 4.3 grams.

Cheers and have a great weekend!

Stephen

...Let's face it, Tom, the 35 will never be the watch your 27 is.

It's not a tourbillon. It's hasn't got a clean-slate developed-from-the-ground-up totally unique movement. It'll most likely weigh at least twice as much. It won't have anywhere near the same exclusivity, being a non-LE. And the case won't have the same look or feel.

Ok, the 35 has 'Chronofiable' certification, but the 27 is no weakling either, as you know. And some may call the 35 a copy-cat or even derivative of the RM27, as it may use, to a small degree, some of the technology which was initially developed over several years for the 27. But imitation (or in this case 'conceived similarity') is the highest form of flattery. So be flattered - you have the original, and the real Purist will always recognize that... You were, and always will be, someone who owns a watch that is the pinnacle of avant-garde material and movement development from a brand at the forefront of contemporary 'haute horlogerie suisse'. I wouldn't be complaining. 

Enjoy your (already legendary) RM027!

My 2c, and all IMHO...

 

the Nadal watch.  Still different materials, design, a tourbillon, and still the watch that is worn on Nadal's wrist.  The RM035 is different watch, similar materials and objectives, but nowhere near the research that went into the 27.  Think of it this way.  Ferrari have a F1 car and a 458 Italia.  Both great cars, but one is out and out research and development racing speed; the other is still along the same lines, but for everyday use and affordable for some mortals.

If I could I would still have the 27, and know that the 27 is an original, only 50 produced, and will stand the test of time.

Andrew H

Salesmen! Come on, be honest. Do you think RM would have sold the 27 through if everyone knew of the 35 waiting in the wings? No, they wouldn't. However, being the horological snob I am, I would have still wanted the 27 but I am slightly perverse or spoilt in such matters. Probably an only child thing!

The fact is I have friends that own the 27 too and they really aren't happy. They think the 35 is better looking and in fact, so do I. As far as car similarities? More along the lines of a Porsche rs light weight and the standard Porsche of the eira and the fact that Nadal wears one means nothing to me as I'm sure the 35 would also withstand the occasional double handed backhand when he doesn't run round such shots in favour of his beast of a forehand. As far as the extra money for the Tourb mechanism? Such complications today mean very little to me due to their prolific nature in various guises from endless brands.

Guys, I love Richard Mille and I'm actually happy with my 27 but only because I know it's the king pin and I'm a spoilt so and so! But if we were all truly being objective?........Come on!

Because really i do find the design very seductive! And as Andrew has put it out to be, totally NOT the 35.

No worries, you have your say and such, and hell if i had your kind of fundings, hoho my collection would probably contain more of those "up in the sky" pieces, but then i'm contented with what i have, and my wonderful family with me supporting me too in all my purchases.

You 27 owners think the 35 is "better looking"? Wow this boosts my ego,

We all enjoy our pieces, and if i was blessed with more funds, i would have purchased the 27 back then, and also the 35 now.

Cheers

Stephen

 

Given how much you spent on your 27, I can see why you are a bit upset by this. However, given how different the fundamentals of the watches are, I think you can take comfort in the fact that the similarities are only skin deep. I would take the 27 any day over the 35...I think the 27 is a prettier watch besides the amazing technical feats...and i am not a salesman!

I do agree with you also in that the tourbillion movement is no longer so special and exclusive as it once was. I would personally love to see RM do more complications besides tourbillion which seems to be the RM specialty complication (besides the split second of course!).

I don't suppose a Richard Mille annual calendar or Perpetual could be in the works?!

No message body

I used to own an RM 011 but I don't consider it a "true" annual calendar since it does not have a day function...

so it is in fact as true as any annual calendar

will stand the test of time.  The movement design of the RM027 far exceeds that of the RM035, as the RM027 is the Vaucher automatic reworked into the manual wind.  Still a fair amount of R&D, but nothing like the 27.  The 27 is one of the unique pieces that Richard comes out with from time to time.  He learns from them and then feeds the ideas down into the rest of the line where possible.  Look at the RM006 and then the fitting of the carbon fibre baseplate.  Same idea, that was something Richard could use to improve his watches.  Same goes for the case material and the look of the watch.  Ever see a RM006 on the market?  Or a RM009?  No - the watches are unique and part of the research element of RM watches that makes the brand something special.

If I had the money, I would take the R027 over the RM035 any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Andrew H

other than the fact they are both black there are no similarities whatsoever.  We all know in all watch makes a tourbillon costs significantly more than a non-tourbillon.

This comparison is like saying you bought a RM002 and then getting annoyed when the RM010 came out which is cheaper, or a JLC Master Tourbillon and then saying the Master Hometime is cheaper.  Completely different models.

The RM027 is, and always will be, a unique piece which I probably won't ever see let alone own..!!  Please don't forget how lucky you are to have a RM027 and spare a thought for us mortals who still can't afford the RM035 either..!!  

Yours,

Andy.

Yeah ur right. Don't worry that I have bought a piece that cost 7 times more than a subsequent offering of theirs because I can afford it. Gimme a break!

I didn't mean to offend you but what do you want everybody to say..?  I am confused by your attitude..?

Would you have felt happier if we had all said how sorry we are that people might think you have a cheap 35 on your wrist..?  I'm guessing by your attitude you only bought the 27 so people would think your rich..?  This seems to be what your saying..?

Please enlighten us.

This message has been edited by Andy on 2011-04-03 12:10:58

Is it wrong that just because I am able to afford one that I should express a reservation with it's ownership? If not, why so chippy? I'm sorry you aren't able to have one in your stable but that's not really my affair so please don't chastise me for not giving the 27 a verbal BJ. Obviously I think it's a great watch or I wouldn't have bought the watch in the first place?

In my opinion, all the luxury brands that last are the ones that tread the line of 'mass produced luxury' with the most diligence and on this occasion, I don't think RM have that's all. I think that a) after generating in the region of 20,000,000 of sales for it they could have either ommited the name NADAL from the 35 OR b) perhaps waited a while until at least all the 27s had sold through the various retailers they had sold them too that's all.

FYI, I used to design watches for the biggest luxury group in the world so I feel I am qualified to comment on marketing, design etc and own, or sadly in some cases, have owned some of the greatest watches in the world from vintage complicated Pateks to Rolex 4113s. Do you know what that is? If not google it as it brings me on to my next issue in your post.

A person that owns such pieces wears them because they make HIM feel good and are not worn for show as before I fell in love with RM most people wouldn't give me a dime for the watches I wore they were so 'stealth' to use a cheesy phrase!

I am not putting down RM, I adore their spirit and in fact they are the reason I have renewed interest in watches, a love that was on the decline until they recaptured my horological imagination again. Currently a love that stands me in at a fortune (though I didn't pay full rrp for the most part having bought pre owned when possible) so I think I'm aloud to express the odd reservation or two every now and then? Maybe you have read some of my previous posts under Da Guru?..

Yes I have read your previous 39 threads (!) hence the assumption your obsessed with what other people think instead of what you think.  You could get the Bubba Watson 38 which at least is white so will still look unique which is obviously important to you, but what would you do if they bring out a white 35..? Moan again..? LOL

I do however agree that the Nadal name should not be used on the 35....but hope you enjoy it when you get one.  Have you noticed the watch Nadal actually wears doesn't have RN on it like yours does..?

Andy.

If not, perhaps a bit slow but either way you should take the time to reread my posts again and maybe come back in........6 months maybe?! Then you will understand that they are the posts of someone that does not care what others think but only what is important to him. They are the posts of someone who risks to say what he thinks unlike many on public forums.

If with your infantile 'white' comments you are referring to the diamond set 12? You're obviously not dyslexic as you'd still be able to deduce that a 3k diamond set watch would make the same impression to others hence what I wear must be important to me and me alone. Do I want to feel I'm wearing the best of what I'm into? F... Yes!

BTW Your agreement or disagreement is of no concequence to me as as far as names of watches are concerned, or anything else horological for that matter. 'No offense meant'?! (As you Seem to end your endless barbed posts in a similar style)

'ok I will' was referring to 'enlightening you' as you previously requested not to selling my favourate, though now slightly tainted, watch at present. Ah, 'bless you'.

Nobody else in this thread has been rude or offensive except you...what does that tell you..?

Look up the new Bubba Watson - it's the same as the Nadal but white - the RM012 is completely different...I guess you don't know what your talking about after all

I guess money can't buy manners...who'd have guessed...except everybody else in this thread..!!  Now give the rest of us a break and go moaning elsewhere

Goodbye.

You think that by acting like a school teacher while making negative suggestions as to the makeup of peoples character, rounding it all off by some paragraph or sentence of candy coating isn't? Hahaha. Don't make me laugh 'Andy'.

At least I've got the balls to say what I think no holes barred. Why ? Coz once again I'll explain it to you. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me. Only in how I feel about my self. Sadly though, I'm a pretty tough task master which is why I'm going to the trouble of engaging with you and objecting to your tone so strongly. Self respect.

If I got the wrong end of the stick with your white comment? Sorry, I thought, which I'm still not a hundred percent you weren't, that you were referring to the white strap of my diamond 12 or perhaps my white cars etc.

Perhaps you could ask yourself why in over a year, I've only been rude to you? Bubba Watson cool and in my opinion not really a derivative of anything else though it perhaps bridges the casm between the 12 and the 9.

and while I dont mind a heated discussion, we are all entitled to our own opinions.  If Tom is unhappy at the RM035, then so be it, however, there are others who welcome the addition. 

I do not think that the RM035 detracts from the 027, Tom disagrees.  Fair enough.  I stated my opinion, and someone else states there.  But please keep within the Rules of Conduct in the header to the forum.

Thanks

Andrew H

I'm anything but. All indications lead me to believe that it could well be the best watch they have yet to come out with due to their extraction of RMs D&A and utilizing it perfectly PERFECTLY in the new 35. I believe it will be their equivalent of Panerais Base or Luminor models.

I LOVE IT but just feel a bit agrieved that I spent the money on the 27 when, for me, the 35 would have surficed as my everyday watch. I believe it is more 'RM' than any other watch they've come out with.

argue, considering where Richard started, that the RM027 is more the instrinsic RM watch.  Richard Mille started as a high end, time only tourbillon watch (RM001), produced in limited numbers, that would be improved with new materials, new ideas.  That gave way to the RM006, the 009, 012, 018 (sort of), 021, 027 and now the RM038.  The evolution and ideas contained in Richard's watches are not a static.  If the RM035 would have sufficed for you, then yes, there is the buyer remorse that 'if I had waited'.  I did not know of the RM035 until just before SIHH, and there are other models I am sure I know nothing about. 

For some, the RM009 is the purest of form, for others the RM027.  I personally like the RM006 as it was this one that Massa had strapped to his wrist when involved in a high speed crash during testing in an F1 car (was not the watch's fault!).  It has been there and done that.

Enjoy the RM027 - it is (to my mind) in line with what Richard had in mind for RM watches: high end, complicated, resistant to shocks, the latest materials, and limited in number. 

Andrew H

Whilst I agree with you that light weight tourbillon are what raised peoples heads enough to look at his new brand ( of which for me the 9 and 27 are the ultimate) however, turnover and commerciality has to be his main objective surely? After all, RM isn't a charity is it?!

Nothing has generated turnover like the 11 and I believe the same will happen with the 35, hence for Richard, I believe the 35 will be the watch he's most pleased with and rightly so!

Having held & inspected the RM27 I really struggle to see what you are concerned about with this 35. The 27 is miles above and beyond the 35, It always was a huge amount of money for a watch, there is only 50 or however many they ended up making. Just really struggle to see why you are so vocal, almost feeling cheated that the 35 looks so similar to the 27..if anything maybe it would firm up the values on 27's longterm, to have a 'similar' version in regular production.

Having said that always struggled to see the value of the really high priced RMs...the 27 being the pinnicle of that. Always viewed so much of the cost was in the research & development & tooling to produce such limited quantities, so basically you were paying alot for that, rather than an intrinsincly valuble timepiece..but then I understand they were going to make 20 or 30 and demand was so high they upped it to 50 or something, so there was/is an obvious demand even at that price.

Why not just go buy a 35 as well as enjoying your 27?... I enjoy wearing my 10, just as much as my 002, dont feel any problem owning a 2 when they brought the 10 out, likewise I like wearing the 28 or 11

Most collectors/watch buffs have many a choice in their collection, so I struggle to see your issue really...it could be very good news for raising the long term awareness of the design & I am sure a 27 will become a 'grail' watch to those who like the 35's design, in much the same way a 9/6 or 12 is.

1) owning 2 lightweight black sportswatches would be a little much even for me!
2) I don't think that owning a 2 and a 10 are sufficiently comparable to the two watches I am referring to. One is automatic and pretty basic where as the other is complicated and although mine are indeed separated by a tourb, they are both manual and complicated in their own way not to mention black and ultra light!
3) As far as the 5-later 10 issue, they were both priced similarly!

I'm not throwing my toys out of the pram guys, just wanted to share a view, that I'm not alone in I can tell you, that's all. I still love my 27 but would have waited for the 35 if I'd known and I have a sneeky feeling RM were aware that that might have been the general concensus hence the order they were put out in! Maybe I'd have done the same if it was my business. You can't make an omlet without breaking some eggs I guess! I am content that I have the 'daddy' but I really do prefer the 35 for it's combination of strut suspension and simplicity or purity of function. We all know that tourbillons are pretty inconsequential in wristwatches anyway don't we?

The all important question is of course is....DOES IT SINK OR SWIM?!!!!

I totally understand what you are feeling.
Though I can't say I'm not happy with the release of the RM35, I can safely say I feel your agony.
The best situation is for you to be able to trade your RM27 to a RM009 and then buy a RM35.
I can't afford a RM27 or a RM009 but I do wish they come out something that has the same alusic case as RM009.
I will buy that but it will also upset many 009 owners...sigh.
*CL

I'll stick right now seeking comfort in the stats (not 'struts'!) of the 27 still being the lightest tourbillon made not to mention it's durability. I wear mine everyday while swimming, playing tennis ( and o play twice a week ) yet it still keeps perfect time. Perfect.

When however they come out with an even lighter option? I'll get a few platinum pieces, tie em to my ankles and wrists before jumping in the pool!