Horological Meandering

An excellent recent post by Kong in the Breguet forum alerted us to the fact that Breguet had created a new guilloche pattern for the 2009 Classique model 5967 – they’ve named it the “Art Deco Damier” (see the post here: click here ). How appropriate, really; guilloche was applied as a regular design element by Abraham-Louis Breguet from 1786, elevating ordinary rose engine lathe designs to a simultaneously aesthetic and functional feature of watch manufacture.

 

How often do you see a new design on a popular piece?

 

Some of the patterns used in guillochage are time-honoured and well-known (think clous de Paris, barleycorn or flinque, for example); others are sufficiently unique to serve to identify the watch on which they are used.

 

So, just how many patterns are there? What are they called? We must have most of them between us – enough to start our own little definitive guilloche pattern catalogue thread, perhaps. What have you got? Here’s a couple to kick it off –

 

Jaquet Droz sun-ray pattern (admittedly under a few layers of enamel…)

 

 

Voutilainen: that central pattern is the flinque pattern (12 segments; radial semi-circles) – ‘hobnail’ on the outer dial and subdial.

 

 

Benzinger (take your pick!):

 

 

Looking forward to seeing others….

 

 

 

Cheers,

pplater.

I have more, just need to upload them
A

Sadly, I can't contribute, but I am looking forward to others' contributions.

Best,

Jed

 

Guilloche patterns can add so much class to dials (and pens, jewelly etc.)

One of my favourites is the JLC Reverso a Eclipses with a sunray guilloche patteren used to illustrate - yes you guessed it - sunrays in an emaille painting. Great example of functional beauty.

I have copied the below picture from a post by Rovermark (hope you don't mind). I would love to see this one live, but as there are only 5 of them, the wait could be long (unless one empathic owner reads this post )

Nikolaj

 

 

No message body

Hi Pplater, A worthy mention. Guilloche is a remnant of an original quality watchmaker's working skill, which has sadly been 'counterfieted and copied' by many, even by some very famous and respected brands, in the form of metal stamping or even fine printed stencil. It justifiably deserves a special mention, as generally speaking it seems that only the more purer of makers still take the time to display this art. I am happy to add a few to the 'Catalogue'. My favorite of course, is the Reveil Du Tsar, which has a number of patterns on the dial.... some review writers have attributed 8 different workings on this dial, but I think that stretches it a little, and even includes the machining under the numerals. Needless to say Guilloche needs a solid metal as a base foundation, and one of the things I always admire about Breguet is their ultimate in understatement... in that, their Guilloche is performed on a base of solid 18K yellow gold, and then silvered. A amazing reversal of the norm which would see work done on a disc of steel, then gold plated. Yet, many other interntionaly recognised expensive watch makers thrive on metal stamping in a guilloche pattern, and this to me is akin to buying a gold plated watch. The real thing, no matter what it is, always has a timeless memory. I have often been known to say, "I can see real beauty in a cubic centimeter or brass, but can find no love in a gold plated 10 centimeter cube of the same. Please enjoy some Breguet Guilloche. Kindest regards to all, Jack

...the work on those watches pays great respect to the tradition of the guilloche effect and of the house in question. Great taste!

 

Cheers,

pplater.

sorry I can't claim the name of most of these, especially the last 4...

That MOP Lange 1 dial is always mesmerising. For those amongst us too lazy to visit your [seminal] "Watch Launchpad" website, any chance of posting a few more photos of the intricate and difficult guilloche work on that dial?

 

Cheers,

pplater.

Hi Steve,

3 of the last 4 are not guilloche... but what I mentioned as stamping.

Although thee photos provide a good comparison of the difference between the real thing and make believe..... especially in the case of the Seiko, which by the way would have to be one of the worlds best watches, with an imitation guilloche dial.

Kindest regards,
Jack.

looks like a varient on the flinque pattern, probably trying to be waves

The dial of the Revil du Tsar is also cut-down to make cufflinks

And then there's the Breguet of divisive styling, the dual-tourbillon


Finally I present 2 horrible pictures of engine lathes in windows. First in some random window in Geneva
Second in the Breguet Boutique back room in Geneva
and in the foreground a straight-line engine
A

...of seeing those cufflinks together in Paris (and trying hard to look casually disinterested when the assistant mentioned the price!!).

What about Chopard? You must have some shots of their guilloche dials somewhere in your vast cache...

 

Cheers,

pplater.

I don't have any good pics of chopard's guilloche dials.  All I have are this through boutique window


On the other hand, Metalem does their dials I believe, at least the high-end dials, so you can see better pictures of their work elsewhere
A

...how could we ignore this work? -

Again, though, the definitive photos of this watch are to be found on SteveG's site.

 

Cheers,

pplater.

Chopard 8 Day - radiating pattern from the center:



Zenith GT Flyback

Copper Sinn

Copper RGM

Gerber




Goldpfeil

This message has been edited by cazalea on 2009-08-25 14:55:31

...on the Goldpfeil, Mike?  Was it Frank Jutzi's own effort or was it outsourced? Interested parties need to know!  ;-)

 

Cheers,

pplater.

This watch has captivated me and there are always one or two allegedly available from dealers I know.
But there is of course usually a watch or two ahead of this one on my wish list!

by Thomas Prescher using the golden mean principle.

Completely done by hand and found only on his tourbillon series,  he called it "guilloche triangulaire"

 

 

Cheers, Mike

At least in my book guilloche needs to be done on some sort engine, either a rose engine or a straight-line engine.  My recollection is that is hand-engraved entirely, so fantastic but...

A

(Especially if you are right - as is likely the case!). Any [other] experts able to weigh in on the point of difference?

 

Cheers,

pplater.

pattern on the dial as guilloche  triangulair based on the use of the equilateral trangle as the basic cell structure. 

 

 

The movement decoration as shown in the previous post is hand engraved and the pattern is based on the triangular pattern of the dial repeated three times in slightly different variations.

 

Sorry of the confusion.  The guilloche triangulair is still unique though.

Thanks for the clarification Aaron although I am not sure that the definition restricts the repetitive pattern to be made strictly via a turning machine.

 

Best, Mike

...not that there were very many of them...Guilloche referred to the spiral-like patterns created by a rose lathe. Not unlike those patterns you made as a child with a compass. So "straight-line" guilloche would seem to be a contradition, engine-turned or not.

So any mesh-like or hand-engraved (no matter how repetitive the pattern) or stamped or knurled other linear pattern doesn't fall under this banner.

But that's wood-work....

 

glossary

Engine-turning (Guilloché)

^{(In French: guillochage )}

A style of hand or machine engraving with intersecting wavy or straight lines. When the piece is moved horizontally or vertically against the tool, the finished effect is guilloché, compared with flinqué or flinking which follows a radial movement.

 

Best, Mike

If I'm reading it correctly the main area here is guilloche

and this is not

(from RGM)
A

Neither Britten nor Daniels, my two goto references for watchmaking, use guilloche, so I had to go hunting on google.  Britten uses 'guillochis' as a French term for 'engine turning' and that seems to defend my position on hand-engraving not counting, but that is using 100 year old words, slightly out of context, crossed with their modern meanings (Talmudically acceptable, but not very convincing).  One thing that turned up was a fantastic set of technical references on the topic:
The more how-to technical reference
www.pledge.co.uk
The overall "everything you ever wanted to know"
www.pledge.co.uk

Will definitely be doing some reading.

I agree with your earlier post with the 2 dials as comparison. Straight lines are just that, no matter how one meshes or intersects them. Guilloche requires a Rose lathe, have fun getting a straight line from a rosette...

 

Thanks for sharing that knowledge Mike.

 

Cheers,

pplater.

I'm not sure if he does his own dials or if they are outsourced.
A