Comments:

What can we do?

 
 By: Weems@8 : February 17th, 2021-15:26
I would say keep on buying watches.

What is a way to get people in action to spend money buying watches?

Lucky that celebreties showing their watches. Maybe manufacturers can try to ask money for watches, instead of giving free watches.

AD networks, servicing points. A brand must try to have a key boutique in any important city in the world.
And not 4 boutiques in one famous city, and the next boutique is 10000 miles away.
If this is all too expensive, online shop is a way. And when people buying at the online store, where can they service the online bought watch when the service interval reached?

Some brands and AD’s keep holding prices for years high without wanting do make a special price if a potential customer ask for it.
I can imagine brands surviving when AD’s are not harsh. A first watch can lead easy to a second watch, and a third watch, and a partner of the customer can decide to buy also a watch because again in the store she saw nice watches and become interested and buy.

GP, i want one, but where is a boutique? Where can i service my GP? No AD and service center to find.
The Swatch group? Driving 20 miles and i can park my car at the parking space of an AD who trading Omega, Longines, Hamilton, Certina. For Breguet i must drive longer, but there are Breguet AD’s in reach.

You have a point about the AD networking and servicing locations...

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-19:36
The pandemic has accelerated the online e-commerce platform as can be seen from WOS financial results.
Many brands have started their own online boutique sales channel and big watch corporations are buying in pre-owned watch companies to expand their reach.
Also, some brands are slowly cutting the ADs and by releasing boutique-only, online only editions....but I wonder how this is going to pan out without a brick and mortar store in the neighborhood...
Like you said, I really prefer the physical experience to be in a store to try and wear the watches, not buy online.
I guess marketing is a strong factor...it's business after all.

I don't know anything about GP but if the product quality is there as you say it is, then this is imho all a brand marketing problem....

 
 By: Fastwong : February 17th, 2021-20:32
You mentioned a lot of potential factors but I think these all roll up into poor brand marketing. Luxury brands for anything, bags, watches, coffee machines, once the base level of product quality is there to play with the big boys, everything else is brand marketing. Heck, even if the quality isn't there, you can fake it until you make it if the brand is strong enough. All those watch makers at GP are being let down by poor brand management.

With a strong brand comes demand, with demand you can begin to figure out resale, supply, auction results, manage supply and distribution, etc. but without that the brand is powerless. If a brand is strong, heritage can be a useful marketing tool to make it stronger, a moat, but if the brand isn't strong heritage can just mean old.

I don't really know anything about GP or have an opinion about it and that's exemplary of how bad the marketing is. By bad I mean non-existent. I'd like to think I'm a little more interested in watches than the average guy on the street and yet I have no real knowledge about GP and no-opinion about them good or bad. Part of that is my own lack of interest but part of that is GP not doing what they should be doing to put the brand and products on my radar. Who is the CEO of GP? Is he or she out there working the media? Brand ambassadors? I don't know what the brand stands for or what they're good at and GP should figure out how to fix that. GF on the other hand is very clear about what they stand for and what they're good at, so clear they write it on the watches :P

As for the watch in question, any brand is going to be challenged to sell steel watches at $10k AND gold complications at $320k. JLC marketing kinda sucks too but they've done enough that they can manage that range and wield their heritage in a way they can drop both a steel Reverso and $1MM Westminster and both feel part of the brand and people trust buying both those level watches from JLC. That requires a lot of trust in the brand. Other brands haven't been able to build that trust and had to split the brand (e.g. Seiko / GS / Credor or Scion / Toyota / Lexus) and trust is something beyond just brand positioning, awareness, and outreach, it's a strategic part of the brand marketing that needs to be thoughtfully implemented over years of campaigns and intertwined with heritage to create something foundational.

Thank you Fastwong for the detail and valuable insights...

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-21:01
The one factor I listed as a disconnection to the watchmaking is yet one of the most important...how clueless can I not be, lol....
I read a lot of watch blogs online so I kind of know a little here and there of the happenings around this industry.
Marketing and packaging is indeed important, they can affect how the brand and products are being perceived by customer. An analogy is to look at how the makeups can change the looks of a person. I’ve seen some shocking before/after photos of a person with/without makeups 😬
It’s a scary world out there, and I hope it’s not like emperor’s new clothes we’re buying. We have our own judgments and if a wrong decision is made, we will learn our lesson.

LOL, no worse than beer goggles :P Everything is the emperor's new clothes sadly. Marketing has taken the place of education and consumers are LESS sophisticated than ever

 
 By: Fastwong : February 20th, 2021-09:10
Remember that magazine consumer reports? Gone, critical reviews are too long and too boring for how we consume content today. Critical thinking and thoughtful purchasing has been replaced by paid influencers and bought media. Emotional buying rather than value buying. The chance of any of us seeing a truly unbiased product review or critical piece to help us make good purchasing decisions on the internet is slim to none outside of place like WPS and even then that is skewed towards positivity (not a lot of bad reviews on here) just like insta. You just have to wear the make-up all the time.... like a Kardashian.... and when you don't you're not ugly, just being "authentic" smile

As long as a Nautilus will cost more than this highly complicated GP, the world will keep on turning mad. It has always been the problem with GP. 2d market is their real problem. A pity.

 
 By: amanico : February 17th, 2021-23:31
No message body

Agreed! It is not possible to help brands as long as there is massive herd behavior by "investors" that leads to market bubbles

 
 By: penfriend : February 18th, 2021-00:35
And watches are not a smart investment as you cannot trade them like public shares - either you are by profession a watch dealer or you are a collector who earns his/her money otherwise (which will then be spend in any joyful activity).

Very well said both....for that I’lI remain clueless collector till I quit collecting watches 🤪😂

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 18th, 2021-08:21
No message body

;)

 
 By: amanico : February 24th, 2021-22:50
No message body

You are totally right. People too often see watches as investment...

 
 By: amanico : February 24th, 2021-22:52
No message body

Difficult and interesting question!

 
 By: Spencer Karrington : February 20th, 2021-07:57
I completley agree and feel the exact same way about other brands like Julien Coudray, I love their work and am so worried that they may falter! I honestly feel that, while some may find it downgrading, they should start a patreon page, especially the smaller independent houses like Julien Coudray or Greubal and Forsay because it is a way for people without the large sum of cash to help out (and maybe give a gift or something as a reward..... ) or maybe even do a lottery system in which people put in like 10 bucks and get ten tickets to be able to get a virtual tour or some kind of fun reward. I love Girard Perregaux and Greubal and forsay and in a way am sort of happy that they have such low prices because it means I can actually afford one :p I am actually planning on purchasing a GP as my first watch, just in negotiations at the moement :p I have attached a pic



JC




the GP




JC


The first photo of that JC is my type of watch too, looks great...

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 20th, 2021-10:00
And honestly I’m not familiar with this brand and that brought up a point by FastWong above that if we don’t have much info about this brand, it really is hard to venture into them.
The GFs are not low prices, even at aftermarket, you might be mistaken...and they are the opposite spectrum in terms of status...
Your idea of supporting some brands might work if there are enough interest...”vested interest”, sigh...

Agree on btoh fronts

 
 By: Spencer Karrington : February 21st, 2021-11:38
JC is def also my kind of watch but no one knows about them and I def think that it has to do with a combination of marketing (as Fastwong said) and spreading the word out. I think that in terms of the later, Mortiz Grossman, while not having the extensive marketing capabilites of brands like Rolex, is doing a pretty good job of spreading knowledge about their brand via word of mouth and strategic pop ups! However, while I am not a big Patek Philipe fan (I know blasphemy) I am a huge fan of their marketing and just that makes me want one, " you just own a PP for the next gen" amazing!!! I honestly dont know if the above ideas would work.......I just think that watch companies should def explore other avenues and experiment a bit more becuase a lot of them are stuck in a tradition in a bad way and could try to promote/sell their watches in more fun/unique ways!

the minute that this came up....GP and aston martin signed a partnership deal 🤣

 
 By: Spencer Karrington : February 22nd, 2021-03:20
No message body

Seriously?! Previously JLC and now GP? I need to rush over and check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 22nd, 2021-08:24
No message body

I know right and no worries!

 
 By: Spencer Karrington : March 1st, 2021-14:32
it is super ironic tho that you posted this just when that happened! do you have a sixth sense?

I damn wished I have the sense to know what’s the next powerball winning numbers....just once!

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : March 1st, 2021-14:40
Maybe I should call Maxwell Lord 😅

Lolz, well once you get it, please chip in some extra dough from me for your next winning numbers!!!

 
 By: Spencer Karrington : March 5th, 2021-11:49
No message body

Has anyone ever been heard to say, "Let's go see the new . . .

 
 By: Dr No : February 22nd, 2021-17:49
. . . David Niven . . .




. . . movie?"

Obviously, not in the last four decades, but in the four before . . . did anyone see a film because Niven was in it?

Probably not. 

John Wayne?  Yes, people certainly said, "Let's go see the new John Wayne movie."  Cary Grant, Sean Connery, even Jerry Lewis . . . those actors had cachet.  Niven didn't.  Was he any less talented or charming or evocative?  No.  But he just didn't have it. And nobody knows why . . . he just didn't.

Same with GP.  They just don't have cachet.  And nobody truly knows why. 






In my culture, we just call this “Fate”, “Destined” or “Born to be”

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 22nd, 2021-18:12
You’re right, Art, many times there are just no explanation for the happenings.
We would assume identical twins who almost born at the same time should have similar fate but each has their own destination. The world is so fascinating.

There's no doubt in my mind which of these two watches is the more attractive: the GP.

 
 By: Age_of_Surfaces : February 24th, 2021-19:21
But GP is in a difficult spot. It's not as large or as relatively insulated from financial turbulence as PP or Rolex. PP can take a 20% decline in YoY sales and battle through.

At the same time GP is not as niche as GF and other small independents who operate at a scale that can consistently satisfy their small fan base. These operators don't need to grow to sustain, so to speak.

Both these characterisations are simplifications, and I'm not suggesting they explain the situation in toto, but it does sum up where GP is in the food chain.

Last autumn GP and UN laid off 25% of their workforces, each. That is not a good sign. If it can't retain capacity in difficult times it'll be increasingly vulnerable the longer the current market uncertainty continues.

Making nice watches or having a long history won't help it. What will? Horizontal integration? Something along the lines of what the Sandoz Foundation has invested in across the Swiss industry? As opposed to the untenable pursuit of in-house manufacture? It's hard to say.

I am also in the same camp to prefer the GP as well...

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 24th, 2021-19:55
Just the size of 48mm in this case, literally, is hard to pull off.
One of the power house PP is know to create ultra thin and wearable watches with grand complications, and I believe if GP have the resources, they can study how other brands become successful and stays that way.
We just don’t know what’s going on behind the doors, maybe they need a famous star leader of the industry who can do wonders,

Can I also add a word of thanks to the OP for this post?

 
 By: Age_of_Surfaces : February 24th, 2021-19:38
It's far more interesting that post after post of wrist shots and the platitudes that follow. I enjoy WPS for the critical engagement that it generates, and the education that comes with it.

You’re very welcome, appreciate your acknowledgment....

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 24th, 2021-19:51
Actually if the community can come together, we might be a force to be reckoned with smile
Thank you 🙏🏻
<< Previous Comments