Comments:
Maybe a little forced...
But what about the impact? Do you think it will have a positive impact, bringing more people to horology and to VC?
Maybe the whole strategy isn't to sell FIFTYSIX, but to sell Quai d'Ille steel watches for 4000 CHF more with a Geneva Seal and a true VC movement?
Interesting thought... but I remain skeptical about its impact to be honest
Can't imagine this collection having an overwhelming appeal to longtime collectors. For the casual enthusiasts, even at the more accessible price range, it's still a lot of money for what's rightfully advertised as a luxury item. I don't doubt VC has done more work than just slapping its logo on a generic piece, but the collection lacks soul, because it's designed with 'budget' in mind.
As for whether it helps sell the steel quai de l'ile, I just don't see why VC would double down on a project with little commercial success. That's a more interesting collection to me for what it's worth.
Ken
As for whether it helps sell the steel quai de l'ile, I just don't see why VC would double down on a project with little commercial success. That's a more interesting collection to me for what it's worth.
Ken
Not a fan
Sorry it this is an opportunity lost IMO. If your going to do it do it right.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Seems like the audience on PuristSPro wants something that's more pure VC, not one with a "borrowed" movement.
That is quite a price! I mean not very affordable for what it is.
The first thing which bugs me is the presence of the date. Centered or not, it kills the dial. Even more when centered like this.
Then, the hands. Which look banal.
Then, the movement... Well, for such a price, I would have expected a Geneva Seal at least. Some elements of finish.
At this level of price, I would have expected another level for that watch.
One positive point, the case, which is nice looking.
But it is not enough for me.
Best,
Nicolas
We come from a different time Nicolas...
Remember just a little more than 10+ years ago, say 12 years ago, even Patek Philippe Nautilus was not hard to get, and was right around 13,000 Euros (or close)? I remember at that time, thinking it was expensive for a steel watch... Wasn't far away from a gold 5127G or 6000G.
Now, we have Vacheron Constantin, telling us their latest steel watch with a non Geneva Seal movement at 12,000 CHF is a good deal...
I miss the pricing of 12 years ago!
The times sure have changed...
I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness in presenting this watch
...but I must disagree with the conclusions about value, finishing, and product/market fit.
In the first case, it is most certainly not a haute horlogerie calibre. The Etachron regulation, smooth balance, unused jeweling, and unfinished main plate, disqualify this movement from consideration alongside VCs other movements or those from Lange, Patek, or even JLC.
In terms of value, better horological value can be had from JLC, Rolex, etc. at a lower price (and sans date). These brands offer free-sprung balances, chronographs, and overcoil springs (in the case of Rolex), that were apparently deemed “too much” for this more-expensive watch. Im not worried as much about in-house or not, or Geneva seal or not. They should have just used an appropriate movement, whether from JLC, Piaget, Chronode or some other specialist, or In-house.
In terms of product market fit with the millennial generation, I think VC has missed the mark. The millennial watch enthusiasts I know, myself Included, tend to get very into the details of what they’re buying and I think many will see through VCs ploy to capture this market with a substandard product.
My opinions on the watch aside, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and for taking the time to create such a nice and informative post!
Best,
Brandon
In the first case, it is most certainly not a haute horlogerie calibre. The Etachron regulation, smooth balance, unused jeweling, and unfinished main plate, disqualify this movement from consideration alongside VCs other movements or those from Lange, Patek, or even JLC.
In terms of value, better horological value can be had from JLC, Rolex, etc. at a lower price (and sans date). These brands offer free-sprung balances, chronographs, and overcoil springs (in the case of Rolex), that were apparently deemed “too much” for this more-expensive watch. Im not worried as much about in-house or not, or Geneva seal or not. They should have just used an appropriate movement, whether from JLC, Piaget, Chronode or some other specialist, or In-house.
In terms of product market fit with the millennial generation, I think VC has missed the mark. The millennial watch enthusiasts I know, myself Included, tend to get very into the details of what they’re buying and I think many will see through VCs ploy to capture this market with a substandard product.
My opinions on the watch aside, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and for taking the time to create such a nice and informative post!
Best,
Brandon
Thank you for your response Brandon!
Thank you for providing your Millennial context! I agree, with today's internet generation, and how Millennials love to research about what they're buying, they may discover that the very standard flat balance spring and basic balance wheel contributing to the basic regulation is something that is a little out of character for a VC timepiece.
Thanks again Brandon!
I echo the sentiments of most other PuristS here...
The main thing I'd like to highlight is, the movement being machined finished with less handwork like polished anglage.
That, to me (as someone who values a watch movement), is clear signs of brand dilution just to fulfill a lower priced market segment. IMHO, this should have been avoided at all costs - VC is a reputable brand of the "Holy Trinity" status. It should be a given that any watch from the manufacture to be at least of a certain standard - especially with movement and finishing.
To introduce a less-finished movement in entry-level pieces, that isn't even in-house to begin with, I feel is a blunder. I am aware that there are other brands that do have similar movements across different case metals with varying levels of movement finish, but it should be avoided in the first place given there's a choice.
It should have been left to other brands that can fulfill the "entry-level, haute-horology" price range.
Regards,
skyeriding
I'm surprised all the egos fitted into the SIHH buidling
they're still living in their own world instead of adjusting to a new normal. Years of 'steady as she goes' denial has become bargaining in the form of 'look at the data...see....., signs of recovery,' neither of which means any of these companies are prepared for the longer run. In my view the trials have only just begun. The fact that things 'havne't been as bad as we thought' and 'we have a poilcy of not laying off' (Hayek) shows you just how much profitable these business are and have managed to bumble along the last few years still making money. The fact that Richemont bought back and destroyed stock rather thansell it at a discount tells you how much milking is going on.
VC definitely took a risk by doing this...
They knew it too.
We will find out if it sells well.
I agree about the anglage. To me, the anglage is one of the most important things I look for in a movement. One of the reasons why I'm not always crazy about JLC watches too, their anglage isn't polished.
But one of the things I expect from VC is a high quality of anglage done by hand. And that "chatter" we saw in a different posting was unfortunate.
chatter on anglage of pateks became common lately too
due to Greed and mass production of patek watches , chatter on anglage of pateks became common lately too . Patek should reduce their prices also since they are giving this inferior quality finish even on non entry level watches . Iam sure this inferior quality issue has been discussed in patek forum .
Very True!
I was among the first to point out the "chatter" on the photos of a very nice 240 Q caliber Patek Philippe perpetual calendar.
The sad thing is that people often put Patek Philippe on a pedestal and admire the brand like fan boys. In reality, every brand, no matter how exclusive, have its faults, its shortcomings, and has taken shortcuts.
If we compare Patek Philippe to say Rolls Royce Motor Cars, I could still tell you where both brands have taken shortcuts where 98% of the owners would not quickly notice.
The sad thing is that people often put Patek Philippe on a pedestal and admire the brand like fan boys. In reality, every brand, no matter how exclusive, have its faults, its shortcomings, and has taken shortcuts.
If we compare Patek Philippe to say Rolls Royce Motor Cars, I could still tell you where both brands have taken shortcuts where 98% of the owners would not quickly notice.
The main “problem” with luxury brands (here high end watchmaking companies), and even more the ones which belong to listed groups (The Swatch Group, Richemont...), is that they can’t lowered their prices
It’s not in the mentality of high end / luxury brands (especially one such as Vacheron Constantin) to make special offers and reduce their margins or, to summarise, offer a better price-quality ratio to their customers.
So, if Vacheron wants to offer new “entry-level” models while keeping its margins, it’s obliged to reduce its costs and/or quality (I know who assembled the movements of this new timepiece but I won’t give the name as I gave my word). What they have probably done here.
I’m not thrilled by this new Vacheron (mainly aesthetically and from a watchmaking point of view too) but I fully understand your arguments... and the ones of PuristS who think differently.
For me, such a watch could be a flogging a dead horse for VC as it could never find the right alchemy with new and former VC customers.
I wanted to thank you for this in-depth report because if we’re not agree between PuristS, it’s always important to discuss and share our views and I prefer talking about a divisive watch rather than one all PuristS love or hate. Much more interesting in my opinion.
Best wishes
Alkiro
So, if Vacheron wants to offer new “entry-level” models while keeping its margins, it’s obliged to reduce its costs and/or quality (I know who assembled the movements of this new timepiece but I won’t give the name as I gave my word). What they have probably done here.
I’m not thrilled by this new Vacheron (mainly aesthetically and from a watchmaking point of view too) but I fully understand your arguments... and the ones of PuristS who think differently.
For me, such a watch could be a flogging a dead horse for VC as it could never find the right alchemy with new and former VC customers.
I wanted to thank you for this in-depth report because if we’re not agree between PuristS, it’s always important to discuss and share our views and I prefer talking about a divisive watch rather than one all PuristS love or hate. Much more interesting in my opinion.
Best wishes
Alkiro
Thank you Alkiro!
It's definitely not a watch aimed at the super collector nor the average PuristSPro reader.
But I thought it was a bold move by Vacheron Constantin, I thought it was a major disruption in the market for a Top Tier maison to take such a risk. And I applaud VC taking risks, life would be boring if they didn't take risks.
And I hope that it does achieve VC's objective, which is to bring more people into the watches in general and to the VC brand.
I'll make a posting later about other watches that I really enjoyed at SIHH 2018. And sure enough, there are some Vacheron Constantin timepieces in there too!
It’s a too calculated risk in my opinion. I would have loved to see something much more daring. But, at least, they try and I only can salute such a move
Best wishes
Alkiro
Alkiro
They just have (but not by anything meaningful) - interesting sign nevertheless [nt]
No message body
Déja-vu, Vacheron Constantin (ups, you did it again...)!
Actually, the strategy here has a precendent at the house of Vacheron Constantin, the Medicus Chronograph (image credit: Govberg Jewellers):
The movement here is what make the new Vacheron Constantin FIFTYSIX look so familiar:
Again, an outsourced movement, at the league of an OMEGA Speedmaster, without all the credentials the 'super-collctor' expects; no inhouse, no column wheel, no Geneva Seal (but a nice finishing).
Even back then this concept did not stand the test of time. So what, in Vacheron Constantin's view, has let them to beleive that this works now? I understand fully, that they cannot lower the prices, as they consciously price themselves higher than the other Genevan brand (the one which does no longer use the namesake seal of their joint hometown). Thus, I personally would have preferred that people who want to shop at a lower pricepoint are poletiely directed to another Richemont maison, JLC, while VC would increase the horological return to price in their existing lines...
Best,
Magnus
P.S.: I like the entire line, save for that unlucky date window...
The movement here is what make the new Vacheron Constantin FIFTYSIX look so familiar:
Again, an outsourced movement, at the league of an OMEGA Speedmaster, without all the credentials the 'super-collctor' expects; no inhouse, no column wheel, no Geneva Seal (but a nice finishing).
Even back then this concept did not stand the test of time. So what, in Vacheron Constantin's view, has let them to beleive that this works now? I understand fully, that they cannot lower the prices, as they consciously price themselves higher than the other Genevan brand (the one which does no longer use the namesake seal of their joint hometown). Thus, I personally would have preferred that people who want to shop at a lower pricepoint are poletiely directed to another Richemont maison, JLC, while VC would increase the horological return to price in their existing lines...
Best,
Magnus
P.S.: I like the entire line, save for that unlucky date window...
Nice example. At least that Lemania runs like a champ!
and they chose the version without the polymer pieces.....
Wow! Good memory!
Thank you for sharing this Magnus! I completely forgot about it...
Movement actually looks nice if you don't look at the regulator. Don't look for a column wheel neither since it's a cam system.
Thank you Magnus for sharing your good memory with us!
Some good, but not good enough...The good, the bad...and the ugly
Some good elements:
--good, modern size, without going overboard
--distinctive case, that looks to the past without looking old
--hands are fairly nice
--stainless steel
The bad:
--I simply cannot get over the movement...don't stroke me and tell me I'm buying a VC when only the name on the dial and a gold rotor with a Maltese cross give any such indication
--I find the piece cynical, actually, where VC seems to be selling a VC watch in-name, but without the substance of what we love about VC
--the price....it's all about what you get; if VC is shoving in a cheap movement and charging "only" $12K, then I find the piece grossly overpriced
The ugly:
--the date is a travesty, and demonstrates to me that VC only cared about sourcing a cheap, passable movement even without finding one that would allow the date to be harmonized with the dial layout and case size; if a date is on order, make it right; or omit it altogether.
--the IWC Portuguese numerals...just terrible; were those numerals all that was left in the Richemont "cheap-but-available" parts bin?
John
"if a date is on order, make it right; or omit it altogether"
The watch would look better without a date.
I really like the folding clasp too! That's always a nice touch!
You’re right.
I should have included the folding stainless clasp under the good category. Nicely done by VC even if I prefer a regular tang buckle for comfort.
Cheers,
John
Cheers,
John
Great in-depth review.
Thank you for your wonderful review- i truly enjoyed it.
However, when i saw these watches at SIHH i was severely disappointed. The problem here is not only the movement used by VC and abondoning the Geneva Seal to lower the price, but the fact that VC the company has an identity crises. As much as i try to love and relate to them i cant help but see a brand that is all over the place with its designs and what its trying to do. Why cant they figure out what works for them and just stick to it? making a cheaper watch and abandoning the Geneva Seal goes against what the brand is supposed to represent in terms of High Horology.
When i think PP i think QP Chronos and Nautilus, Lange has its Datograph and Lange 1, AP has its RO, Rolex has its Submariner.. and so on.Im not saying they should be defined by one watch, but at least have a direction and a sense of familiarity across your lines and not this confusing mess. One might not like Lange's austere designs but at least you would recognize it as a Lange.
But what does VC have? who are they and what do they stand for? Their overseas line is a complete disaster and they can never pull the plug- it'll never rival the 5711 or 15202.Ever. The Patrimony is fine but too plain and boring to compete with PP Calatrava, The Historique line is unimaginative and simply copies beautiful watches from the past as opposed to taking inspiration and creating something that continues and elevates a specific design... The only two lines i truly admire and think VC should focus on are the Traditionnelle and the breathtaking Metiers d'Art.
Being disruptive does not suit VC, it does not suit their long and storied history. Leave disrupting to the newer brands that lack your legacy and don't compromise on your value as a respected House and the craft of High Watchmaking.
Thank you for sharing your post with us!
Great post. Great question...
I'm admittedly not a consistent fan of the Overseas neither.
Watch this space. There will be some more pieces mentioned here in the coming weeks and months. Along with some more inspiration for future Historiques pieces.