Comments:
Do I smell smoke without fire?
I have been hunting a brand new 5711 for quite a while: Patek Salon in Geneva replied "3 years, for very good clients 1 year". Patek's London Salon did not even bother to answer even I have been their client.
I visited Patek's Boutique in Singapore and they told that they get "just a couple every year". I have also contacted several AD in three continents who claim that they get 5711 really very seldom and there are no possibilities to order/reserve one.
Could it be so that this reference is going towards the end of its production? In 2016 Nautilus will celebrate its 40 years anniversary. Last time the Nautilus line was renewed in 2006 and the "intermediate" model, reference 3712 was introduced in 2005.
Does anybody else smell the smoke?
Best, Kari
PS. I will get my Nautilus 5711 next week. The watch was bought far away through a Grey Dealer and I had to pay a small premium. Anyhow, soon I can compare my 5711 to my AP 15202.
Makes sense
AP went full-on during their 40th anniversary:
Considering how brands have been using (or some say overusing) various anniversaries to release new watches in higher price tier, Patek might be tempted to do the same.
Hi Kari, 5711 is a basic and popular Nautilus. I wonder why...
the production is so limited ?
Any explanations by the ADs?
Thanks and looking forward to your post,
Gordon
No explanations.
Hi Gordon,
I have got no explanations. From one PP employee just "I am not surprised that it is not available".
I think there are a couple of scenarios:
1. Patek is keeping the production numbers low in order to make the watch relatively rare.
2. Patek is slowing down the production before discontinuing this reference.
A basic Calatrava with the same movement is costing more. In the end there is very little gold in the case and for sure, the production costs of Nautilus are higher. By keeping the production numbers of Nautilus low, perhaps PP hopes to channel the demand to other watches. Who knows...
At the same time AP was very straight and honest when they said more or less the following: "We keep intentionally the production numbers of 15202 low. We want to keep this reference rare and exclusive. At the same time our 15400 is readily available".
Never mind why 5711 is so elusive, I wanted badly to get this watch. I found it but it wasn't easy.
Best, Kari
Last June when I got tge pair of 5726/5711 white, my AD had the blue as well...
try calling the Carribean island AD...they had it on display...but again, it was 7 months ago.
40th year is a good milestone, but who knows, it's touchy to modify a classic design, just like BMW 3 series inline 6 engines....after so many years of winning the best sports sedan segment, they did not get the title last year.
But, PP may be different, they get anything they want 
)
)Rgds
Raymond
Thanks Raymond,
Can you give a hint: which island?
BMW has changed their engines mostly to four cylinder engines. I do not like that! I always loved the 6 cylinders and thus, ordered my wife a "shopping bag": 435i Cabriolet X-Drive. I ordered is a feminine car with red leather seats and basically all options. I'm afraid that I will use it more than every now and then.
Best, Kari
production is kept low
they do not want to be type cast by one model as another well known company did.
Probably true.
I got from AP their anniversary book "Royal Oak" from 2012. In that book they state that in some markets Royal Oak is a better known brand than Audemars Piguet.
Best, Kari
AP CEO said...
the Royal Oak will remain their most popular model. I think they are approx. at 60% of profits from various RO references.
I think it is quite natural.
In my opining RO is by far their nicest and the most iconic model family.
Best, Kari
Just a few thoughts ...
The production is kept low for good reasons, because it helps to keep the magic and (I guess) the production costs are relatively high - especially for the bracelet and the case. The business case should be better for the more pricey watches from the Nautilus collection and sometimes it seems that those are "easier" to get. Also I guess the business case is much better for AP, if we talk about the 15202 and especially the 15400.
Lots of guessing, I know. But we probably will never get the FULL picture, for good reasons.
Kari, you managed to get yours and I am looking forward to see it. Congrats!
Oliver
Lots of guessing, I know. But we probably will never get the FULL picture, for good reasons.
Kari, you managed to get yours and I am looking forward to see it. Congrats!
Oliver
Thanks Oliver,
Both 5711 and 15202 are very fine watches and worth of tracking till finding one. I fully agree what you are saying about the production costs and I would go even a bit further: 5711 & 5712 represent the best value of all Patek Philippe watches.
Best, Kari
Agent Kari, your next job is ...
to do a very detailed comparison about 5711 and 15202 (including finishing of case, bracelet etc.) - once you owned them both for some time. Will you accept?
"5711 & 5712 represent the best value of all Patek Philippe watches." I can follow here, very well!
HAGWE,
Oliver
ps: Lucky bastard, you get them all - AP & PP
"5711 & 5712 represent the best value of all Patek Philippe watches." I can follow here, very well!
HAGWE,
Oliver
ps: Lucky bastard, you get them all - AP & PP
Mind-reader!
Dear Oliver,
This year, 2015, is my Gerald Genta year. I will be wearing 365 days of four creations of GG: AP 15202, RO QP, Nautilus 3712 and 5711. First I will wear each watch a bit longer time and follow also their time keeping. After each session I will make notes and compare the watch with the one I was wearing earlier. This stage will take half a year.
I have always three wathes on a winder next to my bed and the one I was wearing one the previous day next to these three. Every morning I will pick up one out of these four and mark it to my diary. In the end of the year I will see which one was my favourite.
I will also take a lot of pictures during the year and always travel everywhere with at least two of these watches.
Sometimes in January 2016, I will try to give my verdict: simple RO or Nautilus or complicated RO or Patek.
I started my journey on 1st January @ 00:00 with my 3712. I guess it's a decent replacement of 5712... On 20th January I changed to 15202 and in about 10 days I will change again.
I started this "project" for the simple reason: I can't really tell which watch is my favourite steel sporting watch. For sure it's one of these. I hope that one year of wrist time will give a clear answer. Another good reason for this project is that my other watches can rest and those will probably feel like new love affairs in 2016.
In other words; I accept your challenge.
Best, Kari
About a year ago...
For my big 40. I bought my Nautilus from my local AD.They had both the blue and the white dial. I ended up with the white.
I was there again a couple of weeks ago and was talking to the owner and he said the Nautilus has been only come in 2 more times since my purchase both in blue. The white dial has not come in again. He says he gets constant request for it but it not in his control how many come in throughout the year.
It is a bit ellusive and maybe that makes in more special when you finally get it. But I doubt it is more elusive than your amazing 3712.
Congrats Kari.I am sure you will love it.
Regards,
Javier
Thanks JEC
It is true, 3712 is in its own class.
I had some nasty experiences and one good one with this watch: I ordered it on the same day when it was introduced. My AD promised to get it but claimed later that he never got one. I was the first one to order the watch and I was a relatively good client. Some years later one person working for the AD told that they got two. The other one went to somebody paying more and the other one to a friend of the owner. Some years later the other watch was for sale here in Collectors Market.
However, one German AD had kept a 3712 unsold. I bought it somewhere around 2009-2010 (I have naturally the receipts filed). The price was well above 5712, but I bought this brand new sealed watch.
Anyhow, the pain of paying a lot for my 3712 is long forgotten. I do not really remember how much I paid and do not see any reasons even to check it. I would say that the purchase of 3712 was one of the best ones I have ever made.
Best, Kari
I can imagine
That every 3712 most have an interesting story behind it.
I would love to add one in the future or even a 5712 would be great. It think it would make a great companion for my 5711 White dial.
Kari...Thank you for sharing your story on the 3712.
Best,
Javier
There are still some 3712 around.
I would get it before all of those go to the safes of collectors. My feeling is that people do not yet fully understand that 3712 is the last Nautilus constructed according to Gerald Genta's original design.
Best, Kari
low production
It's just a case of Patek keeping the production low, like people already mentioned, it makes you want it more, maintains the exclusivity, and Patek wants you to buy the higher end model where margin is better.
And Thierry Stern have publicly said he doesn't want Patek to be known as a one model brand (we all know what brand he is talking about).
I had difficulties
to live with this philosophy. Till I found my 5711 - now it's much easier...
Best, Kari
AP
All this talk about the RO ultra thin makes me want to get one. I have and love the 5711. Actually, I have owned three in blue. Bought and sold the first two. The first had the 315 movement. I said would buy again and never sell. Great fit and comfort, great lume. Their best PP watch if you can only own one. I found the last one in stock at an AD along with the new white dial two years ago. The white was just too white for me. Since then they cannot get them. What timing.
Just get 15202...
I have it on my wrist when writing this. I have owned several Nautilus since 2005 and I have never experienced the same as with the RO.
I stop watching the case and the bracelet of the watch several times every day. The design and the balance are stunning. In fact, the RO is like a sculpture and all the time I find new details. Everything is very balanced. I had earlier 15300 but I never felt like with 15202.
Best, Kari
I agree ..try the AP :)
I own the nautilus (but with white dial that also came with a long delay) just wanted to say that the 15202 is indeed a great
alternative - overall if feels a bit younger than the nautilus but as you know this is a matter of personal taste.
I love the AP but you should only get the one you truly love - what you don't want to do is buy one that will leave you thirsty for more - unless you can and wanna own both.
I don't think that there is any fire - just smoke to push you into other models and to create this artificial sense of desire: so once the watch is available (and it is, trust me) they can command a full price (or a premium) without having to bargain too much
In the end
Businesses everywhere are the same, they want to sell you more of the products where they have higher margin, and they want to charge you as much as they can get away with.
I am in the manufacturing business, the company that I work for sells parts made by CNCs to automotive companies world wide. We have many parts that only cost minimal amount more to produce, yet we charge double or more (citing it's much more complex to produce, blah blah blah), and sometimes there are parts that we sold to one company that's 50% higher than we sold to another, simple because one took the higher quotation price.
Watches are manufactured products, I believe say, 5712, 5980, and other higher end Nautiluses likely doesn't cost much more to produce than 5711, but Patek charges a lot more for them, and they rather you buy those models than than 5711.
There's nothing wrong with it though, Patek after all, is a for profit business.
Always a challenge to find the model I want, and I want so many...
I suppose there is the comfort in selecting the right brand, when a desirable time piece is so hard to come by. I had the pleasure of enjoying my 5711 blue dial for a little while, but the 5712 had always caught my eye from the moment i first saw it. That is not to say that the traditional design isnt near immaculate, I just happened to meet the one I fell in love with, and it hurt for years till I finally made it mine! Fortunately for me, my grey market dealer always has one of near every ref on hand (even the 3712), andI was able to treat myself last year. I suspect smoke, Kari, as all the official dealers in New York kept describing increasing availability, with limited reality. I am happy to have my true love in my possession, and I have you and your outstanding posts over the years to fuel my lust. That is not to say that 2016 wont bring a new flame, for I am willing to cheat if 5726 comes in gold
Sincerely,
Dimitris
P.S. My compliments to Kari are not to exclude Oliver or Glau, who have always proved fine contributors to this page. Thank you all for years of rational and fantastic commentary.
P.P.S. I have slender wrists, and so the RO never fit properly unless I went for the 37mm variant. At that point, I always respected the strength of the new style gold datejust on a strap (not to mention the water resistance with a rubber B). Admittedly, i always felt the cases of the Nautilus and Datejust less aggressive than the RO, no matter how stunnng its bracelet design and rotor may be.
I hav never really understood
why people with slender wrist go for the biggest watches.
I.e. Nautilus 3800 (or 5800 if you can find it) is a fantastic watch and it looks great on a slender wrist. I hope mine would not be 8 inches as 3800 is so bloody much cheaper that 3700. Like you said, RO is also available in 37 mm version.
Normally men understand that shoes size 12 are not for the guys having feet sized 9. Why the same can not be applied with watches.
Thanks for your compliments.
Best, Kari