Patek Philippe

Its a sad fact that Patek's limited service capability and network for vintage pieces is making it extremely inconvenient and difficult to own vintage Pateks if you live outside Geneva. Owning and looking after vintage Patek watches has become inconvenient to the point of absurd, even if one has the means to afford the expenses involved in my country. I would like to share my experience regarding just 1 such PP within my family, so that people consider this aspect before investing in vintage PP's (anything over 20 yrs old). I live in India, where Patek has 1 competent Authorized service agent for the country. My vintage Ref 2551 required a screw back in 2008. The PP authorized service agent in India is not allowed to even open my watch, not being qualified by PP to work on this old caliber, neither are they allowed to accept the watch to send to PP due to customs issues being faced by PP in India. So, I took the watch to my local watchmaker (for lack of choice) and asked him to open and give me the screw as a sample. Hand carried the minute part carefully in person to Switzerland while on holiday in 2009 only to learn I had to bring the watch, if I was to receive its screw... otherwise, sorry, no screw... wow! Back in India, many hrs writing out pleading emails finally managed to move PP to send me my spare screw through the service agent. PP was magnanimous to not charge me, but the effort, time and trouble I faced for such a straightforward matter was a let down, to say the very least. Fast forward to today. I need service for the same 2551, and getting it out of the country is a chore I just have to accept. I luckily have family visiting Europe who will carry and hand deliver my 2551 to Beyer, Zurich, plus some obliging friends to carry my valuable watch back from Zurich once completed. So here I am, currently in the process of leaving aside all work, back to trading pleading mails with PP to kindly communicate my estimate directly on email after they receive the watch, and asking them to please ship the watch to the address of the friends in Zurich, not Beyer after it is completed. So far its been close to two weeks of hard work and effort, but sorry. The estimate has to go through Beyer and the watch has to be picked up from Beyer itself. So, to service or receive any parts for my vintage watch (of which we own more than 1 within the family), I am, as a cash paying client of the company expected to- 1. hand carry the delicate watches outside the country and deliver to a PP authorized agent. 2. communicate with only this same dealer outside my country for the estimate, job to be done, etc. 3. travel once again outside my country to once again pick up my watch. Is this fair practice? My point is- Yes, Patek undoubtedly makes among the most desirable watches money can buy. Look after these, and they last WELL over 20yrs (within which service is available at any authorized service agent). So, considering they sell in India, and have sold here for over 20 yrs, should it not be PP's responsibility to ensure proper service and spares backup to owners (no matter how old their watches be) in their own country? I own several other vintage watches, including Omegas for which I recently received spares for a 1940's chronometer without any trouble. Authorized service and spares for these are sold to me within 20 mins of my home in my city. I hope my highlighting my problem through this website is able to move Patek to find a means to resolve these important issues quickly. I also hope it serves to inform other buyers about these hidden, often unspoken aspects of vintage Patek ownership.

its not PPs fault that your customs have issues or are difficult , how about sending your watch to the closest AD in the nearest country then travel wouldnt be that bad for you, the perils of vintage watches  )

nt

I agree,
Its not Patek's fault that India has customs issues, but this is not the fault of the Patek buyer here either.
Besides, the onus should lie with Patek (not Patek clients) to work around local problems existing in a market they sell watches to, to do whatever it takes to ensure their watches are provided full service and spares backup without making owners traverse countries.

The point to my post that you unfortunately missed is-
- to make it known that Patek is failing to fulfill their after sales responsibilities towards their watch owners in India.
- to highlight that Patek is doing the wrong thing enjoying sales profits in India, yet thereafter turning their backs on clients by forcing them to traverse the globe to get service and spares.

Please note that Omega, a similar Swiss company has overcome all the very same ground realities in India, and does provide perfect service and spares backup for all their watches, vintage or otherwise in India, which I have experienced firsthand.

Hi,

One point I agree is that Patek Philippe's representative in India should IMO take the responsability to send watches back to Switzerland, but at the expense of the watch owner if it's out of warranty.

Is the representative owned by patek Philippe or not?

Cheers

Dje

The Patek representative is not to the best of my knowledge owned by Patek.
Yes, you are absolutely right.
I would have absolutely no complaints if the Patek AD in India were at least able to take my watch in and sent it from here to Geneva (certainly and completely by all means at my expense), coordinate with me for all the estimates etc., and receive and deliver it back to me once done.
Omega provides this level of service here for their watches. I have received spares for some of my Omega's as well as had a watch sent out for service through their AD located in my own city. Yes, it takes a little more time for this kind of job (it took over a month for a dial for a 1940's watch to reach me from Bienne on one occasion), but one is atleast reassured their watch is being properly cared for.
I'm honestly frightened to wear a Patek routinely, because there's always the nagging fear at the back of my head that even the inevitable nick to the crystal will mean I have to just live with the watch that way, or face these overwhelmingly uphill challenges if I am to get my watch attended to and back into the condition I like to use them.

As you said yourself, it was CUSTOMS having an issue with PP which prevented the watch being shipped in/out of the country.

Furthermore, i definitely understand why their PP watchmaker in India would not be allowed to open the watch. It is for your own benefit in case anything goes wrong. Something so delicate and precious must be handled by only the trained person. Imagine would you go to a normal GP (family doctor) when you need a quadruple bypass? NO of course! But that being said, it is just a precaution that your PP has to be serviced by the appropriately trained watchmaker.

Well, PP might have done some wrong by sending the quote and watch back to BEYER. However, that being said, i think you should let it pass. What happens if the address or postal service got mixed up or the item got lost in transit to this 'unknown' destination? Who would bear responsibility in this case? Safest way would be back to BEYER in my opinion.

All i understand from you is that you are seriously whinging. Patek did not ask you to make numerous trips to Switzerland or repeated trips to solve your issues. You could have simply dropped it off in one of the ADs or Distributors and they would take care of the necessary issues. Be it India, or any other closer country to you. It was again, INDIA CUSTOMS which have the problems and best solution would have been to visit another asian country. More importantly, you could have asked BEYER TO MAIL you the item. I know multiple friends/people who have purchased/service their PPs and just asked the ADs to send it back to them when they receive back from PP.

Cerainly,
I understand my delicate timepiece needs to be handled by only a suitably trained and skilled watchmaker. But Patek is not the only company selling precious objects in India. Several other companies sell precious objects here, and provide all the after sales care and spares needed by their products thereafter. My whole point is, since Patek are selling in India, they need to consider putting a suitably trained man (if not men) with the required spares in this expansive country to provide whatever is needed by way of after sales service for their products, specially in light of these products being such superb and durable objects that we are happy to enjoy and keep.
"Whinging"
- by your skewed logic, you would tomorrow say BMW should sell me a 7 series in India, and then tell me to drive, or ship my car to Bavaria for a service and oil filter because BMW can't send me spares or have a trained engineer close to me.
- and you would again say I was "seriously whinging" when I did get the car driven into Germany, and BMW refused to mail me my estimate back home instead of at the service center where I dropped my car off.

As earlier explained, dropping the watch to the Patek AD in India is not an option. The Indian AD does not have authorization to open the watch, or take receipt of it because they are unable to send it to Geneva from India. If that were possible, I would be a happy man.

What i'm saying is that for a vintage piece, i'm sure they have their reasons for wanting to ensure only the right watchmaker handles it. If you do own a vintage bugatti from the 80s, i'm sure your local bugatti dealer would not have the spare parts or the right engineers in the country to fix it up for you! There is especially a quality assurance and logistical reason why VINTAGE pieces must be handled back at their *headquarters*. It would go for the same for your BMW example, if it were a BMW 507 from the 50s, i'm quite sure BMW INDIA would not be able to handle it. The swiss watch industry is experiencing a crucial shortage of qualified watchmakers! Most complications and Grand complications would have to be sent back to PP HQ either way!

Irregardless, you really could have saved yourself plenty of trouble by dropping off the watch in another AD in a neighbouring country, as opposed to travelling and requesting your friend/relatives to handle it. I know most of them would gladly call you when they receive the quote and help you proceed if you wish to service the watch!

Anyway, enjoy your vintage piece! I'm sure all these effort ought to worth it at least!

Please move on with your life. stop... that is not PP fault.

You are mistaken,
Patek is at fault, having sold watches for decades to customers in a market where they are now unable (for whatever reason) to provide thorough and proper service and spares backup.
Its easy for you to say move on with life, because its not you that bought and now owns watches dear to you, yet requiring your travelling with them half way around the world each time they need the slightest attention.

Furthermore, the casual manner in which Lobo says Indians need to drop vintage Pateks off at Patek dealers in nearby countries suggests this is just as simple and convenient as taking a stroll in the park located just around the block. To justify travelling to another country as correct because Patek faces xyz problems with Indian customs is wrong, because this is Patek's problem, which Patek needs to work towards resolving or work around in some manner to ensure their clients do not suffer like so.
Its absurd to imply it as fair when expected to travel to another country each time service is required for a vintage Patek, of which I own more than one.

What i'm saying is the current issues between patek and indian customs has to be sorted out. In the meantime, all you could do is find the next best solution rather than complaining about the inefficiencies.

I'm sure there are many reasons why the CUSTOMS are haveing issues with Patek on such matters. It is similar to how our own governments and companies operate. RED TAPE. You don't just hang around and wait for it to sort it out itself, you got to be PROACTIVE and find a solution, and in this case, if you do really want to repair/fix your Patek, find another qualified/good watchmaker (not PP trained) in India, or alternatively, go to a neighbouring country's AD if you want the full package from PP itself!

My friend,
You're missing my whole point-
- which is, that it needs to be Patek that works around/ tackles or addresses the problem whatever it is, and not me as an owner (which is today the case).
Patek should be able to do whatever it takes, to find a way to get their service to India, or get watches sent out of the country safely for such work, and avoid this sorry situation, where paying clients are being forced to struggle, find and make all alternative arrangements on their own. Specially in light of the high-grade nature of their products. To share an example with you. A friend recently bought a top of the line Bentley in India. The car had some issues and gave him trouble, which the Indian representative was unable to resolve. Bentley IMMEDIATELY stepped in, flew in two engineers with all the required spares and tools, addressed the issue, apologized for the inconvenience and did so at their own expense.
Thats service!

boycotting PP in India and selling all your Patek's.  If they are not taking care of your needs, they are likely not taking care of other customers also so if you feel strongly about this matter, protest and boycott PP.  Buy Omega, Rolex or whatever brand provides the service you need.  But, if it is PP, that drives your passion, you have to suck it up and go through the hassles of being a collector in India.

Hi Wilson,
'voice my protest' has me smiling.
I do own a few other brands, but would simply hate to sell my Pateks, of which I instead hope to buy more!
I admire and love Patek's beautiful watches, and so hope to urge the company to work towards bringing their Indian watches the better level of service they need and deserve, specially in light of knowing this is possible, given that Omega and Rolex do provide the same.
It would have been easy to do as you say, and avoid wasting my time..... were I to simply sell out of PP's in favour of other brands...... were they not such well made and beautiful watches.
It is PP that drives my passion, which is why I hope PP will put in whatever effort is required to change Indians having to suck all this up to collect these grand watches in their country.

Then you need to spend some time writing the Sterns in Geneva and be the "squeaky wheel" describing your problem and asking them why Rolex and Omega are able to satisfy their customers and not PP, in India.  It always takes one person to start the revolution for change!  I would think that PP would not want to alienate a very lucrative and wealthy market in India?

Let us know how your mission goes. 

Now thats a constructive option, one that I will take up.
Thanks

I agree with you that PP should make every effort to bring all services, for modern or vintage watches, they promote on their website to the agent in India.  If they cannot provide all the services to their Indian distributor, then maybe they shouldn't be there at all.

If there wasn't an agent in India, your problems would be just that.....your problems.  However, that is not the case, and clearly Patek should bear the responsibility to ensure their distributor is equipped to deal with any issues regarding their product....period.

I can certainly understand your frustration and the advice given regarding writing a letter to the Sterns is a step in the right direction.  I'm sure they would feel the same way if they were in your shoes.

Best of luck.

that you voice your concerns directly with PP.....

It might be a case of a bad AD....
If PP has an AD in your country, they should be able to resolve any custom problems,
since you are willing to pay for the costs....

Good luck....

Cheers

Hi PinkPanther,
I have and continue to voice my concerns directly with Patek over some time, but am yet to get a satisfactory response.
I believe this problem has more to do with Patek's inadequate commitment towards India, and lack of presence and will to see the right thing done for their clients here. The AD has his limits, and so I have no complaints with him. I've dealt with them on numerous occasions and always come away satisfied with proper service and a good experience.

If I would not be satisfied with a Manufacturer or an AD, then I would
simply not give them my business....

Having said that, I have only dealt briefly with PP directly and have been very satisfied....

Good luck...

Cheers

Lets put it like so,
I am more than satisfied with the product. Its common knowledge it would be hard to find mass produced watches that match what Patek gives us.
However, its this same company's 'half-hearted' attitude towards this particular market, and lack of backup for clients here that leaves so much to be desired. This is what I hope Patek acknowledges, wakes up to and takes concrete steps towards rectifying with proper solutions.

Can you explain this to the point where we can all understand why  a watch cannot be shuipped  from one country to another for repair??

Your entire problem seems based on this one problem.

"neither are they allowed to accept the watch to send to PP due to customs issues being faced by PP in India."

Thanks, Dan

Sorry,
Yes, this is the problem. But I can't answer why, because I honestly know not why. This is something Patek will be better placed to answer. The reason I am told is the customs have unreasonable demands which PP cannot work with.

Many of the responses to this post of mine have surprised me.
Is it not clear that I am not asking for favours or freebies from Patek, but only that Patek delivers what they owe me as a paying customer after they are present, and sell watches in my market?
Is a customer anywhere in the world not entitled to expect and receive complete and total after sales care when he is sold a product in the same market?

Rashid,

The responses do not surprise me as an observer.  I thought most of those responding were somewhat restrained.  Your original post and many of your replies seem to be pointing the finger at Patek for systemic problems that arise in many  Third World Countries and under many corrupt or dysfunctional governments.  Your point about it being Patek's responsiblity to find a way to serve the customers to whom they sell is a valid one, and had you made it without the tone of blaming, you would have been met, I think, with a more empathic response.

Park

I have a hard time believing that Patek will not comply with customs demands from India. Patek does business world-wide and I have not seen any other countries that have issues with shipping items to Patek.

Furthermore, I think your lone India-based Patek AD is doing a true disservice to you as a loyal customer of Patek. What other job does the AD have than to be a middle-man between you and Patek? The AD is the middleman when you purchase the watch and when you bring it in for servicing. If the AD cannot get the watch to Patek in Geneva, then the AD is not doing their job as an AD. If this is such an incredibly difficult and basically impossible task, maybe this AD should no longer be an AD. Maybe another store should work with customs/Patek or whomever and become a faithful and trusted Patek AD?

Is this a new issue with sending watches to Patek or has this AD been doing the same disservice to every other Indian Patek owner, that now cannot get their watch serviced without traveling? Or did this store willfully become an AD, knowing that it could not send watches to Patek for service?

Just my 2 cents worth

If PP's competitors can do the level of service but PP cannot, definitely PP's rep in India is incompetent.  You can write to PP and suggest that they review their rep in India, I am sure there are many other reps who are capable and willing to take up this business, it is not a small piece of business after all.  If PP doesn't really care about customer satisfaction, loss of market share due to a lousy rep in India, then nothing much can be done.  The reps in surrounding countries like in Singapore and Hong Kong must be eager to take it if such opportunity arises.  My experience with business practices in the area is that when there is a will, there is a way.  In the mean time, you can contact the rep / dealer in Singapore / Hong Kong and see if they can send someone to go pick up your watch from your home at your exp (then you save a lot of time).  Vintage watches all have to sent back from the rep in Singapore / HK back to Geneva for repair and service anyway.  Any service can be provided as long as there is margin, the watch can be insured when it is in transit to reduce any risk of damage or loss.

Regards

Ivan

Yes,
I do clearly blame Patek, and no one else, not the AD, because the blame does finally lie with them as the parent company to resolve WHATEVER the problems involved are. Such matters should be looked after and taken care of within their internal system (which has clearly failed) without owners having to run from pillar to post for service owed to them by Patek. Such problems do not concern me as the paying client.
Patek is the parent company that sold me the watch and has an official presence within the country.
If a writer makes a blunder within a newspaper, its the Editor and owner of the paper that eventually have to face the music. Similarly, when a ship sinks the owner gets hauled up and oil companies get into trouble when there's an oil spill.
The logic where people claim Patek is free to sell me the watch, make money in India and then sit absolved, washing its hands of the case citing excuses like unique local reasons and problems is wrong logic. Patek Philippe is ultimately responsible, and is most certainly to be blamed. They, as a responsible company need to wake up, smell the coffee, get their act together with their AD, customs or whoever, and sort out the problem quickly to see that their clients in India do not have to continue to put up with this kind of nonsense any longer. Inaction and lack of any concrete actions on their part over a prolonged duration are what do bring blame to lie with them.