Patek Philippe

Very quick question, buying one or the other, which one should I buy & why?....really like the look of the Lange Pltn DP, but wondering if the Patek would be a more prudent buy, ie have better long term value....be quite interested to hear the pro's and con's/views of the forum members. Will also post this question in the Lange forum as well, appreciate any comments

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5970 all day long .....
I say this for one reason only.........This one...
Let your eyes do the work...... The 5970 is just so perfectly balanced.........
And after all it is a Patek Philippe....

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5970 all day long--it is also a lot more money!! I have a 5146P and a Platinum Datograph--love them both--quite different though. If I was going to spend that kind of money--5970 without a doubt!! I do love the Plat Dato though--the regular one though for me is much more classic looking than the perpetual--IMHO. Great problem to have though!! Lucky guy!!

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I would go w/ the 5970 over the dato-perpetual for sure... for all reasons (and I'm a huge fan of ALS... I own the dato and RL in plat). I also think given the list price of the new 5170 (much higher than the 5070 msrp for equivalent metal) that the eventual replacement for the 5970 will be very costly. It'll make the 5970 look like a bargain. haha. it's funny to say bargain for a watch that costs more than a porsche 911...

..thanks for the input, and those pics are stunning, loving the gold wrist shot, really hasnt helped my decision posting such nice pics!

Decision made to go with the ALS as firstly there is a very big price differance if you go like for like...I was looking at a 5970J or R falling into a 'similar' price bracket to the ALS, however the pltn PP is a lot more than the ALS pltn, so value for money on that one is a no brainer

It seems on the ALS forum it is thought that the ALS movement is superior to the PP so overall it seems that the ALS is better value for the actual watch if you discount brand/history etc and those things that add the value to a PP. I see the jewel count is 45 in the ALS & only 24 in the PP, obviously not a reason to chose it, but I find that quite fascinating ..why is it nearly double?..is that indicitive of a superior movement or toatlly irrelevent?. I see the ALS has 556 parts, cannot seem to find anywhere where it lists the no of parts on the PP...it also seems the PP 5970 has been removed from the PP website, I think thats a bit poor, it may not be part of the current line up, but it provides info, and as Pateks are supposed to be handed down through the generations, surely keeping details of previous models on the website isnt too much to ask?

But anyway overall the Platinum really sealed it, I do prefer it to RG or YG, and a PP PLT is out of my price range currently....no easy choice at all, but it would have been even harder to call if the pltn PP was a similar price

Thanks for the input

The ALS has a platinum case, the Patek in the 'similar' price range is yellow or rose gold,the movement in the ALS is made in house summing 556 parts & 45 jewels, the Patek 353 parts 24 jewels

I do not know enough about movements to comment on the above differences, but usually the more parts=  the more expensive.

Yes I think I am in agreement the PP has a better looking/balanced dial & nicer shaped case.

So I am struggling to see why a PP costs so much more relative to the ALS in the market place. I see both watches quoted Retail prices are very similar, yet in the market place there is a differance of 50k in the price of the PP vs ALS  that you can pick a new  piece up for, so blantantly the market values the PP streets ahead of the ALS.

Given the facts above about the movement why is this?..is the ALS a far better value buy at $50k cheaper, perhaps the market will rise for them considerably, there is certainly  alot of value to play with..is it becasue the Pltn PP is relatively new  and perhaps the value will drop a little once there are more about in the market. Is Pateks history so effective that they can make a lot bigger margins than ALS...ie I wonder what the actual cost to sales value is for both models...as they are 'supposed' to retail for approx the same I am just trying to understand the mechanism that nearly halfs the value of one yet maintains the value of the other...to me so far it seems to make the ALS great value in relation to the PP...

 

 

 

 

 

I would go for the PP but if you want the Lange, buy the Lange. At the end it's just personal taste because both are great !

Just one remark, the number of pieces nor jewels has any influence on being a better or worse watch

The choice then becomes very clear.............
M.

If you are unsure about something then sit back WAIT and then act....... This seems to be common sense but us collectors can be a little impulsive. It has been a great bit of advice for me and I know has helped me make the right choices on many occasions......
Maybe I would not have these two in my collection if I had not let my eyes and heart make my purchases for me........ Good luck with the way you jump... Regards Miles.

I fell victim to the impulse too many times and wound up selling later.  I started having a "cooling off period" before purchasing and it kept me away from many hot watches that I would soon grow tired of.  Now I stick with the classics and only buy when I'm ready. 

Choice is obvious. It must be the Patek 5970 in whatever metal. Suggest u gauge yourself at all the major Auction sites.You will come a a irreversible conclusion. Whilst the Lange Dato Perpetual looks very "solid" both in feel and weight starring it for long will make you change your mind and go for the 5970. Just my two cents worth!.

Henry Hoe. 

If investment is the concern, I believe the Patek over the Lange is the way to go.

Investment isnt the driver, basically I have a few other watches & just wanted a perpetual chrono to keep, like many people who like watches  i suspect the fascination of a perpetual calender ticking away is something of a great addition, must have something to do with time itself, the joy of not having to alter the date in my generation...it has a sort of special meaning for some reason I find hard to express.

I understand what you say about no of parts & jewels having no bearing, as I said I do not know enough about the movements to be able to comment on the quality of one vs the other, and certainly it seems in the thread no one has come up with a 'this one is better than that one becasue....' so I would conclude they are of similar quality.

Is the Patek valued so highly just becasue it is a Patek?...if the ALS had the PP movement & vice versa, would the Patek camp be singing its praises over the ALS due to its presumably more complicated nature, due to it having more parts etc?

I ask these questions not to offend or upset anyone in either camp, I am really just trying to understand the differances, and the reasons for them to assist in my choice, I am fascinated by both watches. And yes people will say 'buy the one that shouts out to you the most' fair comment, I always do..problem here they are both shouting so loudly and equally that I have been trying to give the edge to the one that gives the best value for what it is without taking into account the name or branding...its a toughy!

Most of the guys who buy BMW's, Mercedes, etc. have an underlying desire for a Porsche 911 in my view.  Eventually they succumb.  I think it is the same with PP.  If you buy the ALS, are you sure that you won't be coveting a PP later?  I am biased for PP and while I like the looks of a ALS, I never considered buying one because it is not a PP.  I am a 5970P owner, by the way, and I do not have unlimited funds for watches but I'd rather spend the extra premium and have a PP that I can later trade or sell easily when the next great PP temptation hits.

M.

M.

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Please link to my prior posting on this subject.  I just lived this quandary and learned a valuable lesson from it, just not one you will agree with.

I gave up my Patek because it wasn't the Lange I really wanted....

Regards
DB Darien

patek.watchprosite.com

This message has been edited by db darien on 2010-06-30 13:33:14

It seems most admit to a huge amount of badge & branding in that thread, something I really try to avoid.

I also disagree on the MW drivers aspire to Porsches etc, maybe its a bit of a culture differance, but I am in the U.K, Yorkshire to be precise, and to tend to find I lean towards the more reserved side.

Funnily I have had quite a few porsches & BMW's, but each one was chosen becuase of the drving experience it offered..Not for the brand..had a 997 GT3 for a while, great car, great drive,but always struggled a bit with the 'in your face' looks with the big spoiler etc, sold that to go into a BMW M6...and I must admit at that point many people who were not car people came out with comments like ' what youve got a bmw now?, why? its not a porsche is it?'....found all that quite humourous to be honest. It seems you come across many people in this life who are just so brand & marketing led to have items purely becuase they shout out to others 'look at me, how well Im doing/how good looking I am/how clever I am/how knowledgable I am' etc etc etc....one phrase springs to mind..'get a life'

Im sure we are all a little brand & marketing led, I swing both ways on it, I might have a designer label pair of jeans or shirrt, but then the other half of my wardrobe will be regular Marks & spencers stuff etc...but I really do try to make a distinct decision to buy becuase I like not becuase other people will like.

Currently drive a VW Golf GTD, but have the value of several ferrari's worth of collectable stuff that other people will probably never see, thats for my private pleasure!, so certainly not interested to spending on exotic cars anymore.

So i mention this to give an undrstanding of how I have been trying to make my decision based on just the 'watch' side of it and what is right for me as an individual. The Patek brand works against it in this arguement with me, as does the clasp on the strap that shouts out ' patek look at me'...I am not interested in that at all.

My watch collection has been made up primarily of Richard Mille pieces, I like the style, I like the technology...up here in Yorkshire most people havent a clue or heard of them at all, which is great, again its nice to wear a high value item that I enjoy and not feel eyes looking at you...to me my watches are my private dirty liitle obsession!!!...I

I respect hugely the brand of PP, and the pictures in this thread show cracking timepieces, I am not wanting to 'diss' the brand as I have gone elsewhere, I have merely made the right choice for me, but rest assured if I had the funds I would of had both watches ( would of had to swap out the strap clasp on the PP though ! )

Sorry if Ive rattled on a bit, thanks for all your input, i am certainly pleased I posed the question here & in the ALS forum as it certainly has helped me ascertain the right choice for me.

Enjoy your watches chaps,cheers

I used a Porsche 911 not as a an example of its brand name but because of its superiority on the road as a performance car and its design.  It's certainly the best car I have driven on the road.  If I was only interested in a brand, I probably would have referred to Aston or Bentley or the slew of other luxury cars that are more about brand than pure performance and design.  I just like the performance and design of PP's better.  Since the ALS Dato is what makes your heart beat faster, you made the right decision.  cu on the ALS forum!

..apologies if I miscontrued what you meant. I understand cars as you say for the performance analagy, I do not understand your coverting a PP just becuase It is a PP, usually there has to be something to back up what it is you particularly like...It never really has been a 'brand' that I have wanted to aspire too, like the cars I tend to lean towards technical or performance characteristics to feul my passion. Richard Mille watches, love them or loathe them, personally I love them, carbon baseplates, alusic material etc etc I really do buy into that brand due to the ethos of the RM brand. Obviously looks are very important, and I do agree the PP is a cracking looking timepiece, almost ageless and extremley nicely balanced.

My recent choice was to find a Perpetual chrono....ended up with two choices for me...I have never started out wanting to own a piece from a certain brand, then pick from wihin that brand, it always starts with a particular want , then i cast the net and see which one I think is overall the best for me for that particular need, could be a sports watch, a tourbillion, chrono, divers watch, whatever .

Then other times I just see something and fall in love with it, regardless of anything else

Thea really surprising thing in this thread to me is that there hasnt been a substantive reason for picking the Patek...I really expected a lot more substance behind the PP arguement

Not the best pictures admitedly, but I have tried to find one of the ALS to compare to the back of the PP as posted above....I think most will agree that whilst the face maybe open to debate on which one is preferable, I think the rears show a big lean towards the ALS on beauty!

 

On acquiring your new Datograph Perpetual.

I fully agree that the movement in the Lange is probably imo, very nearly if not the best in the business.

But If I had to choice (which I am pretty glad that I don't) I suspect the Patek may just about cross the wire first.   

I shall look forward to seeing your photos.

I hope it brings you many years of pleasure.....
Regards
Miles.

I am a big fan of both brands. Many collectors gravitate to Patek because it is Patek. But what a great watch and value you have in the Dato/perpetual. Given relative prices, that was the best purchase. Enjoy!!