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Montblanc 1858 Tachymeter Steel / Patek Philippe 5172G. Two pictures.

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-02:48
Dial side: With some common elements of style. The Patek has its two sub dials located under the 3 and 9 o clock line, while the Montblanc is well centered. Some will like, others won't. 




Movements: Cal CH 29-525 for the Patek, Cal 16.29 for the Montblanc Villeret Minerva, which is almost 10 mm bigger than the Patek. But with a smaller power reserve ( Circa 55 hours for the Montblanc, 65 hours for the Patek ).


As for the finishings, the Montblanc wins, clearly. 

While for the case, the Patek wins. Smaller, 41 mm instead of 44 mm, thinner, 11, 45 mm / 13, 5 mm,  better finished... 

It is interesting to compare them, I think. 

Best,

Nicolas

that is interessting indeed...

 
 By: muhadri : April 1st, 2019-02:50
i admire patek a lot, but same with Minerva.. great comparison.... Where are the prices on the two?

I don't know the exact price of the Patek, but I would say that the Patek around 3 times more expensive. But the MB is in steel. In rose gold, I would say that the MB is two times less expensive. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-02:53
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The PP is approx. EUR 66k. [nt]

 
 By: Pretty Boy : April 1st, 2019-02:55
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The MB was 25 K euros in steel. 35 K Euros in rose gold. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-02:56
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25k euros in steel

 
 By: RvW : April 1st, 2019-03:21
That what you paid for your prototype from JLC?

From JLC? ;) [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:29
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Website lists 5172G priced at £56,430, Montblanc when it came out was priced at €25,000 [nt]

 
 By: centurionone : April 1st, 2019-02:58
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Thanks for these precisions. I know the price of the MB quite well, as I own it. But I didn't know the exact price of the 5172G. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:00
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Oops my bad, didn't see your post about the price sorry [nt]

 
 By: centurionone : April 1st, 2019-03:01
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No problems. I needed the retail of the 5172G for a precise comparison. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:02
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My conclusion is the Montblanc would be perfect a little smaller. [nt]

 
 By: Tyo : April 1st, 2019-03:26
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You have the 13.21 for that, with its 40 mm case and beveled lugs. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:27
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Thanks Nico, very interesting comparison! Always wondered why the two subdials in the 5172 are not symmetric about the 3–9 line

 
 By: FabR : April 1st, 2019-03:31
I thought it was just a cosmetic choice, but then I heard TS say in an interview that it’s for ‘technical’ ressons, without elaborating further. Would be interested if someone knows the answer😀

Because of the architecture of the movement. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:31
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It is a base chrono movement for perpetual calendar split second movements

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : April 1st, 2019-03:44
of the 5204 and also 5370, which need more space for theire inherent, additional complications.
Therefore the subdials are not in line with the crown.

I suspect the 16.29 is also the base for the MB new Spit Seconds Cal 16.31.

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:47
Here it is:



I think also, but other than Patek, MB does not or did not yet

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : April 1st, 2019-03:51
add other calendar complications to it.
This would ask die more space and a different movement layout, I suppose.
Patek had the advantage to plan this in theire development phase of theire new chrono movement.
Interesting post!

Who knows. For the moment, you are right. But it would be great to see some evolutions from this calibre. And why not? The 16.29 has some room for that, I think. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-03:52
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Oh, yes please!

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : April 1st, 2019-04:02
An 1858 chrono with a calendar, let it be a simple full and not a perpetual, would suit this watch a lot.
Room in the dial is also plenty.

I also think it would be beautiful. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-06:43
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Thanks a lot, this does make sense. [nt]

 
 By: FabR : April 1st, 2019-03:50
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My pleasure! [nt]

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : April 1st, 2019-03:52
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Movement wise also

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : April 1st, 2019-03:59
MB"s movement is older, more traditional and made out of German Silver or at least to some part.

Patek's is a new movement is obviously new, less finished but technically state of the art.

However, regarding robustness and longevity I feel MB will do better.
Just a feeling.

Yes, I agree on all counts.. Thanks, Count. ;) [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-06:34
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Interesting post Nicolas.

 
 By: M4 : April 1st, 2019-04:09

Thank you for the comparison.

M4

It is all fun and a lot of pleasure. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-07:06
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Definitely an interesting comparison! [nt]

 
 By: patrick_y : April 1st, 2019-09:12
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Thanks for looking, my dear Patrick. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 1st, 2019-10:43
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Hello Amanico, again an interesting post and comparison.

 
 By: GreatPilot@me.com : April 1st, 2019-14:37
All the points in the thread are pertinent for the purpose of the persons point of view except the movement in the Montblanc being better, it being SS and so on.  The size of the MB  is not an issue for many, I have a 6.75 inch wrist and the 1858 fits me well, in fact for the longest time I thought it was 42mm until a friend teased me for saying that.  I also believe the dial on the Montblanc is prettier with the starbursts effect and the chrono sub dials aligning.  And let’s not forget the Montblanc 1815 Minervas are limited to 100 each SS, RG or Bronze, Patek is not a limited edition.

I know talking pricing and discounts is discouraged so Mods please delete if you think I’m out of line here however I want to clear up the pricing debate.  The 5172G is $73,710 USD, not sure if it will be discounted but the Montblanc is discounted at least 20%-25% (if you ask) with the US retail at $25K for the steel and $30K for the rose gold.  

So to be apples for apples let’s use the RG Montblanc to the WG Patek. The RG Montblanc would come at $22,500 with a 25% discount, If the Patek were discounted 10% (only a guess) it would come out $66,339 so the delta is closer to 3x less for the MB in previous metal.  

For my money the Montblanc is the clear winner in this comparison and I will add that I believe if you buy a Montblanc at the discounts mentioned above the value will hold consistent with only 100 of each being made.  

For a little fun I added two pictures off the blogspot.com site of my 1858 Bronzo with the rose gold added to the movement...Jim








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