Yes, I read it when the article came out.

Dec 19, 2021,18:51 PM
 

Well-written at that. And I can understand such a visceral reaction from someone reading it. 


We probably all agree that Panerai has to rein in their marketing department as they are destroying part of the brand's value. These are unforced errors, and they've made multiple similar errors over the years.


That said, the reality is that these watch companies have their hidden stories and myth-making departments. And they're mostly geared to match our fickle consumer fads in order to sell more watches. 


One example: Remember when JLC produced their own "certification program" for their watches? Many people (including me) laughed at their marketing department...but then Patek dropped the Geneva Seal so they could mark their own movements with their own PP "seal". Yes the standards of the Geneva Seal needed updating at the time, but producing your own "quality" seal? What a circular closed loop of inanity. Give me a break. So now Vacheron and others are calling Patek's bluff by using the updated Geneva Seal instead of an internal seal. We'll see over time if the market ends up preferring the Geneva Seal to internal seals. 


Another example: Not that long ago, folks generally didn't have access to cameras that could capture the difference between hand-produced anglage and machine-produced anglage. So many of the high-end watch companies went with low-cost machine finishing for their lower to middle tier watches (hand-finishing is expensive). Now our iphones with an attached plastic optic can highlight the (relative) ugliness of machine-produced anglage when seen under such an intense focus. So now folks complain about the period of time that Patek and others used (use) machine-produced anglage and we now worship at the alter of hand-produced anglage. Does it really make the watch any better? Not in my world, even though I can appreciate well-executed anglage. Do you get a sense of wack-a-mole yet when it comes to what the fickle consumers want each year versus what is provided by our favorite watch brands and how they pivot as needed?


Another example: for the past 15 or so years, we worship at the alter of vertical integration, whether of a mid-sized independent company or small independent. But go back 20 years and this was a silly proposition. Almost all watch companies (with the possible exception of Seiko and a few others), including even Rolex, were outsourcing important components of their production to specialists. And rightly so to ensure quality. But then we fickle consumers were sold a story about "vertical integration" being important. Including a story about how a watch company needs to make their own movements (even as actual performance, and future serviceability options, diminish - the performance of movements from FP Journe and Roger Dubuis are good examples of this when compared with the humble ETA 2892 - but what do we expect when the examples of such limited movement production haven't worked out all of the kinks)...


...so here we are...slaying myths and marketing giants.


Again, Panerai had better get their marketing act together because the example given is egregious. And I'm sure they're paying a price as the various fora are having a field day with them. But they are hardly alone about not being truthful concerning meaningless "vertical integration".


This is my personal opinion on the matter after decades of collecting. And I stand by my comment that brands under the umbrella of Swatch and Richemont will, with very high probability, outlast most independent brands. 

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Comments: view entire thread

 

Panerai as a brand is all over the place

 
 By: ripper444 : December 14th, 2021-17:59
Authorized dealers and the Panerai service center along with Panerai’s website have absolutely no idea what they are selling. 1. P9010 has been secretly “updated” to REMOVE the hacking seconds feature. You would have no idea if you are new to the brand bu... 

Luckily I said goodbye to the brand many years ago

 
 By: Poky : December 14th, 2021-18:14
The appalling service was enough for me not to go back to the brand again. It is a real shame because I do like their designs.

Well...one thing for sure, to me...and again I'm clueless....

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : December 14th, 2021-18:16
They all look very similar, whether it's a $5K one or a $100K pre-V one or the limited one with a round wording at 3 o'clock P. If someone is offended by this, I apologized but that's how I see this brand now.

No hard feelings

 
 By: Weems@8 : December 14th, 2021-18:29
Albeit CC, i am not a Panerai fanboy. So i feel no offend at all. I guess Panerai is difficult to level because they owned by Richemont. Richemont is a money machine, so love can be lost for the products. Customers is another subject. I am afraid if all c... 

I'm the man, haha, too kind my friend, too kind...

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : December 14th, 2021-23:36
Good grief, I still have 3 from the list of of lucky ones. There is a saying in mandarin, "All crows are black"...rarely there is a white one )

Albino

 
 By: Weems@8 : December 15th, 2021-19:12
For Nicolas. I guess he want to handle JLC soft. I do not know his opinion about JLC under Richemont. Albeit, i want no bad name having against Richemont. They have some great maisons, that is for sure.

And why should they...

 
 By: sergio : December 15th, 2021-14:21
not...all look very similar? There are few different models, in the Panerai's production, at present. Tell you what, for people like me, way too many...different models. If you look around most of the historical brands, manufacture products that "look ver... 

Hocus spokes pass Panerai

 
 By: Weems@8 : December 14th, 2021-18:16
A brand lost in a labyrinth. If nobody knows how the watches made, than another solution must be activated. Look how they put that crown guard, oversized plump bump. Well well, i have light spots found for Panerai. I like that they have leather straps and... 

Defending?

 
 By: Weems@8 : December 14th, 2021-18:47
Do not feel offended. Get this from Clueless. The man. Sorry, we are buddies. Then maybe it is a sellers question. When i buy a watch i tell the seller things he or she not know about the watch. This cause we have everyday watch day. Sellers are doing onl... 

True or lack thereof...😉

 
 By: India Whiskey Charlie : December 14th, 2021-18:48

Of course.

 
 By: amanico : December 14th, 2021-22:04

I still have a few Panerai but got lost a number of years ago.

 
 By: Bill : December 14th, 2021-19:02
Do many new models i could no longer keep track. But tye old one are happy. ...  

Now that is a selection worth wearing Bill!

 
 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : December 14th, 2021-22:17

Hairy arms

 
 By: Bill : December 15th, 2021-05:36
...  

The 372 is made for you.

 
 By: amanico : December 15th, 2021-07:48

Clearly it is! Totally agree!

 
 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : December 15th, 2021-11:10

NEVER been a Panerai fan.

 
 By: Thomas_3 : December 14th, 2021-19:14

As a consumer regardless of experience or collecting years

 
 By: ripper444 : December 14th, 2021-19:16
People should be able to receive proper non contradicting information so they can make an informed decision. Panerai is shady and clearly ripping off their customers who don’t know better. The P9010 really made me mad. Out of the blue they decide to cheap... 

Love the company but their quality control sucks.

 
 By: sludgeriff : December 14th, 2021-19:33
I’ve bought 3 Panerais over the last 5 years. Straight from their mono brand boutique. 2 were lemons right out of the box. Their customer service was good as the lemons were replaced and not repaired. I think their product is worth the money when they get... 

Plus 1…million.

 
 By: myles721 : December 14th, 2021-19:44

Yes I had a modern titanium 1950 case luminor

 
 By: ripper444 : December 14th, 2021-20:19
Came defective with the crown guard roller ball was stuck and scratched the entire crown! They did replace it for free for me.

Had terrible experience

 
 By: myles721 : December 14th, 2021-19:45
with JLC Duoface…guess who owns both brands?

Swatch group overall is better

 
 By: ripper444 : December 14th, 2021-20:20
The thing is Panerai does have some cool designs. Their older models are better value.

It’s really a shame…I wanted to like my Duoface

 
 By: myles721 : December 14th, 2021-22:05
But it was SO poorly made it killed the brand for me.

The worst....

 
 By: sergio : December 15th, 2021-15:29
service experience I've have had, was with Breguet They kept my watch for 6 months and returned it to me in the same conditions I had given it to their local AD, with an invoice for hundreds of Dollars. I refused to take delivery (in front of a speachless... 

How to argue with your post?....

 
 By: sergio : December 15th, 2021-14:24
You're quite right, IMO. Let's say that Panerai is going through a "rough patch" in their evolution. A brand that has been founded and operated under strict...military secret...conditions, for almost all their "Italian" history, obviously hasn't quite fig... 

I fully understand you, Doc....

 
 By: sergio : December 15th, 2021-15:22
they have done much to upset and alienate a lot of their grassroot supporters (me included)

The PAM372

 
 By: ripper444 : December 15th, 2021-17:59
Is still one of my all time favorite watches but it’s just too large so I never got it!

The 372 is a quintessential....

 
 By: sergio : December 16th, 2021-03:33
Panerai. Question, is it your wrist or your mind that find the 372 too large?

Do you still own yours or you sold them off?

 
 By: ripper444 : December 15th, 2021-17:59
This PAM 1085 is my last as well. I am still in the honeymoon phase but once that ends I’ll get rid of it! this P6000 is very accurate in my model and this dial looks awesome! Even though a toddler pressed in the bezel and case back!!!!! ...  

All over the place? I agree with you.

 
 By: destrodan : December 16th, 2021-05:53
That being said, when I first fell for Panerai it was for the design. 2002, before I had ever heard about Paneristi, before the Strap Wars, before the 'special edition' craze, before the Brooklyn disaster, before the current brouhaha. I stepped away for a... 

Yes, I read it when the article came out.

 
 By: destrodan : December 19th, 2021-18:51
Well-written at that. And I can understand such a visceral reaction from someone reading it. We probably all agree that Panerai has to rein in their marketing department as they are destroying part of the brand's value. These are unforced errors, and they... 

Panerai has been all over the place since day 1.

 
 By: John-E-Mac : December 21st, 2021-04:14
Panerai has had a penchant for generating distracting noise with some of their products and marketing that has overwhelmed their solid offerings. Nevertheless, there are gems in their past portfolio that have been overlooked. For a company that must conti...