I understand your sentiment but before you jump off,

Jul 07, 2010,00:40 AM
 

there're a few points that might be worth your thoughts?

#1

Let's take a quick look at OP's limited edition pieces that were either NEW in casing design or dimention at the time of release and NOT limited by the movement supply:

PAM52, the first 40mm Luminor Chronograph with zenith movement, limited run of 500 pieces.   Followed by:  PAM72/74, 121/122, 105, 108.  (I didn't list 168 as it was fitted with different movement but you get the idea!)

PAM64 1000m submersible, limited run of 500 pieces.  Probably another 2000 pieces or so of basically the same watch as PAM87.

PAM76 Luminor blackseal w/ cover, 300 pieces initially then all these variations of JV, Purdeys, Sealand, Shanghai boutique editions( urgh! )    *Not even sure if this truely qualifies as it's probably just new tooling from bezel level up so overall cost probably not as high as a truely new design*

PAM127 1950 Luminor, 1950 pieces then 1000 pieces of 217 and 150 pieces of 203, not even counting those OOR.

PAM187 47mm Luminor 1950 submersible chronograph, 1000 pieces and all those daylights that follows.

PAM191 60mm Compass 300 pieces, well this is one exception BUT it's a compass afterall so I would guess the R&D cost is a lot lower...

PAM194 47mm Luminor 1950 2500m submersible w/ helium release vavle, 1000 pieces, then the PAM285 + the small run of destro for a retailer in Paris?

PAM198 45mm Radiomir w/ JLC 8 day PR movement, well it was released with 190/197 and all the in house movement variants were housed in this case size as well.   

PAM232/249/262 47mm Radiomir, total about 4000 pieces not counting the 309/322/349 granted these models have a sub second so technically one can argue that they're different.

Without trying to justify the manufacturing/tooling cost vs price, it seems clear that the brand would make 1000+ pieces every time they roll out a new models so based on the previous observations, I would expect Panerai to do more than 1000 pieces on the 339.  The choice is would you rather them do 1000 pieces now and then come out w/ another 500-1000 pieces of  OOR/variation later?  

As Nicolas mentioned earlier, they've been doing this for years and there's no reason to expect them to change ttheir attitude  After all, they're running a business, in fact a business operation within a large conglomerate.  As such they are probably under huge pressure to make profit, not necessarily just for the brand but also for the group.     What they've done to the 339 is nothing new and rightfully in the best interest of the share holders.      Of course this might not be in the best interest for some collectors but I think we can all agree it's the right business decision?

#2

Regarding the communications between the dealer and HQ.  I'm not sure if you have first hand information regarding the actual dialogues, unless you do, it would be difficult to assess the right or wrong.  

Moreover, they're in the business of direct marketing via various boutiques, as such it's perfectly sensible to channel the desirable models via the boutique.       Would you have done the same thing if you were running the boutiques?

IMHO, this would continue to post a problem for people who has been traditionally buying from the dealers.  All these momentum on opening brand specific boutiques could potentially drive up the overall cost of ownership for the end consumer.   But this could be another topic in itself.

 

This message has been edited by Jester on 2010-07-08 00:33:56


More posts: ChronographLuminorLuminor 1950Luminor Black SealLuminor ChronoLuminor MarinaLuminor SubmersibleMare NostrumPAM105PAM108PAM127PAM168PAM187PAM191PAM194PAM198PAM203PAM217PAM300PAM339PAM500Pendulum ClockRadiomirRadiomir 8 DayRadiomir Composite Marina Militare 8 Days

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Jumping off the Panerai bandwagon

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 5th, 2010-01:07
I posted the below as a response to an existing post already yesterday, but think it might just deserve a post of its own. As is clear, my love / passion for Panerai has cooled down significantly. Don't get me wrong, I still think they are very appealing ... 

You have made a point

 
 By: Bruno.M1 : July 5th, 2010-02:57
the 339 is something I don't get, just like you When they say they will make 1000 is is very stupid to increase it to 1500. They should think twice before the make a LE. Once they said 1000 pce it should stay 1000 pce Same BS with the 341 Egiziano I hope ... 

These increased LE are a kind of historical habit, at Panerai...

 
 By: amanico : July 5th, 2010-03:09
And Frankly, any old Panerai Collector shouldn't be shocked anymore... They made the same thing with the Cali ( and I don't remember if it was also the case for the 232 ), + the OOR phenomenon ( 127/ 217/ 163/ 203, 92 and a few others ). No one should buy... 

relation RRP and number of watches

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 5th, 2010-03:28
Dear Nicolas, You are absolutely right about the watch being the most important. All I am saying is that there is a relation between what one is willing to pay for a watch and the number of watches produced. The price for the 339 was rather steep in my op... 

Absolutely, as the good price is the price I have the wiling to pay.

 
 By: amanico : July 5th, 2010-05:46
And if the watch is worth 15 K USD, why not? It is a long time I don't care about LE or not LE watches. LE is like marketing, in my opinion. The Marketing, nor the LE won't make me go on a watch if the watch doesn't sing to me. Therefore, a watch limited ... 

Exactly my sentiments...

 
 By: patrick_y : July 6th, 2010-15:27
I completely agree with the values indicated in Nicolas' post. Buy it because you love the watch.

hmmmm

 
 By: trebordig : July 5th, 2010-05:13
Sounds like it took you a long time to figure this out...15 PAMS !

6 years

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 5th, 2010-06:43
6 years of on average 2 pieces a year (although in some years 3 is perhaps more correct and then I sold 1 in some years as well when I came to the conclusion it was not going to be part of the collection going forward) and then I inherited some as well. C... 

Sorry to hear your frustration

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : July 5th, 2010-08:58
I totally understand where you're coming from and I also understand why Panerai does the things it does. Thanks for posting your thoughts since we are always interested in hearing how others feel, whether good or bad. I do agree with you that if Panerai d... 

There are always ups...and downs. Thats what happens when you LOVE something

 
 By: nacho m : July 5th, 2010-12:14
If there is no passion...ups and downs are not there my friend. I understand your points. Im also disappointed with some things at PAnerai (like OORs...for example), but honestly, this is just because we feel something really special for that brand. All t... 

I don't get it.....

 
 By: sirjo : July 5th, 2010-23:04
allowing for the frustration, aggravation and dejection you must be obviously feeling, I thought that the whimsicality and quircks of Panerai were part and parcel of it's aura.....appeal and mistique. Granted I've been a Panerai enthusiast for a very shor... 

I can understand your frustration

 
 By: Aless156 : July 6th, 2010-00:47
and disappointment, however, for good or bad Panerai is so popular that I'm sure they feel they can pretty much do what they like. Therefore, if they want to increase production of the 339 by 50% then they will. Similarly, if the want to delay release or ... 

I understand your sentiment but before you jump off,

 
 By: Jester : July 7th, 2010-00:40
there're a few points that might be worth your thoughts? #1 Let's take a quick look at OP's limited edition pieces that were either NEW in casing design or dimention at the time of release and NOT limited by the movement supply: PAM52, the first 40mm Lumi... 

Very good points Jester

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : July 7th, 2010-06:54
We should bring up your last point in HoMe forum about the opening of Brand Boutiques possibly increasing the cost to the consumer. I personally think your accessment is true btw. Cheers, Anthony

I think most brands are guilty of this

 
 By: aikiman44 : July 7th, 2010-18:18
That is, coming out with limited editions, then either altering them or producing more than originally stated. I think it's business as usual, and therefore I take the term 'limited edition' with a very large grain of salt.

You really hit the nail on the head.....

 
 By: sirjo : July 9th, 2010-01:04
Vivid, sense making essay. Bravo!!! I'm sure some of the old timers have a bit of a problem in realizing that the Vandome aquisition of Panerai, had to do with....making money. Whereas in the Pre-V days, the clients (a much smaller base) were going to Pan... 

i completely understand your Frustration

 
 By: Tony A.H : July 8th, 2010-15:11
2 Years is a very long wait.! but i wonder why you couldn't pick one up from some very reputable Sellers ??! i see quite a few 317 for sale. on the other hand, if i had such a BIG Panerai Collection ,that should keep me happy and fulfilled for a long whil... 

interesting

 
 By: golfzhu : July 9th, 2010-03:41
As a new owner of a PAM31 since 15 June, I am very happy. I love the dial and the feel on my wrist. I however do not see myself owning more than 2-3 Panerais. I just don't see the point owning watch models which are 90% the same dial. I will like a submer... 

Keeping some (and a question on the Mare Nostrum for those in the know)

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 16th, 2010-10:01
Yes, as indicated there are some pieces that I will not sell due to emotional value (inherited). And it might very well turn out to be more than 1 or 2, as during the last couple of weeks I have been looking at some of the others pieces that I bought dire... 

Just be sure not to post here in the forum pictures of the models you're selling

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : July 16th, 2010-15:16
because we have a rule in our Collectors Market that you cannot list for sale any watches that you've posted pictures or talked about in the forums for a minimum period of 3 months. We have this rule in effect for shilling reasons. Cheers, Anthony

No worries Anthony...

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 16th, 2010-21:36
... I am very much aware of that rule and for the watches that I intend to sell I am already in discussion with some people from the local collector's community. Works much better than selling through the internet! So the few pieces that I will show here ... 

k thanks! [nt]

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : July 17th, 2010-08:18
No message body

I could understand your frustration..

 
 By: colantotte : July 17th, 2010-06:52
In my earlier years of going after a desired Panerai watch, I too, waited for them whether LE or non-LE, ... Those days, quantities were even fewer and at times, we couldn't even get to see even a regular model on display. But I came to realise after all ... 

As promised some pictures... I decided to make chrono's the theme

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 18th, 2010-03:54
I thought I'd throw in some chrono's as I am a bit fond of those myself..... I must be the only (or at least one of the very very few) person with the Panerai 311s in his collection. I bought one for myself (I must admit that it is certainly one the Paner...  

Not sure I exactly follow you? [nt]

 
 By: ticktocktimesup : July 23rd, 2010-00:06
No message body