The Rise of the Independents…continues unabated.

Sep 13, 2021,16:01 PM

Just saw this posted on Grönefeld’s IG account 

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😂 it seems so

 By: oyster case : September 13th, 2021-16:33
Is this the independent equivalent of empty showcase but watches in the back room 🤔

These guys do everything so well!

 By: Geo : September 13th, 2021-17:33
Their announcement is not only a really good decision it was also so stylish, to do it this way. GEO

Agreed. Do you own any of their creations?

 By: Lankysudanese : September 13th, 2021-17:45
I don’t…yet

Actually wearing one today.

 By: Mikekraft : September 13th, 2021-20:25

Very nice!!

 By: kcinemod : September 13th, 2021-23:36

I am sorry to hear this but not surprised.

 By: NautNut : September 13th, 2021-18:00
Their watches are exceptional. While I feel fortunate that I have mine, I feel bad that others have to wait a while. If it's any consolation, it will be worth the wait!

This is just another brand to add to the ‘can’t experience unless you know a generous super-collector’.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 13th, 2021-18:10
gone are the days when you can waltz into an AD and handle Journe’s, APs, SS Rolexes or Gronefeld’s…before making a decision to purchase. Now, you buy first (if you can) and THEN make a decision after ownership

True . It happened to me recently with Moser

 By: Watchonthewrist : September 13th, 2021-19:11
I tried to order a green dial streamliner during GWD but got a email a few days later that they stopped taking orders . You need to be quick nowadays and say yes first and then think if you want or like it afterwards. Taking the fun out of collecting a bi... 

Moser streamliner 😳.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-06:56
Wow. No offense to moser, but they make 1500 watches a year. So it’s impressive that demand has outstripped supply so much. A work colleague has one, and he likes it.

I am very glad that you managed to order a Principa

 By: sham1 : September 13th, 2021-23:18
before the orders stopped. Maybe I am jinxing it - I have a Remontoire and RW Smith Series 1 arriving next year and both brands have now stopped taking orders!!

i am not sure how much is the price of Remontoire now?

 By: Gelato Monster : September 14th, 2021-01:38
are they still accepting order for remontoire? I wonder how many available out of 188?

Long long long sold out

 By: Cozmopak : September 14th, 2021-02:06

I ordered the watch in September 2019

 By: sham1 : September 14th, 2021-06:11
It was initially scheduled to be delivered this month but due to the pandemic, it is now scheduled to arrive by March 2022. Not much difference to me as I am 'imprisoned' in Malaysia due to the pandemic and am unable to travel to Singapore to collect the ... 

2 years for remontoire. wow

 By: Gelato Monster : September 14th, 2021-10:03
I guess in this hobby to have what we love requires a lot of luck

It is two years for the Principa too

 By: sham1 : September 14th, 2021-13:35
before the order book closed. In a way I am glad because we can then expect independents like Gronefeld to be with us for a very long time,. I did worry for the smaller less well known independents during the pandemic as many were struggling.

yes. after comparing so many independents I pick the brothers

 By: Gelato Monster : September 14th, 2021-15:30
the watch is full of ingeniouity and very very gorgeous, I believe the brother will survive or at the very worst acquired by the Giants

Well I certainly hope they will resist the temptation of

 By: sham1 : September 14th, 2021-16:17
being owned by a large company. Nothing like being the boss of your own outfit. We have seen the effect of large companies taking over independents - nothing good for the independents in the long run.


 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-06:56

Thanks Sham. Hopefully my AD doesn’t offer my allotted piece to the highest paying billionaire/CEO.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-06:57
That’s a cat-and-mouse game that I can’t play 🤣🤣

If your AD does that, you must tell us

 By: sham1 : September 14th, 2021-08:40
because I am pretty sure every AD will value your custom!

It’s good to know that the WPS heavy-hitters have my back 💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-09:13
I’m a David, in Goliath's world

We are all Davids

 By: sham1 : September 14th, 2021-09:45
in this passion of ours!

Remember, a lot of companies are creating fake "waiting lists" to convince people their products are more in demand...

 By: patrick_y : September 13th, 2021-19:33
It's like a nightclub with a long line of people outside... It may be empty inside, but the long line outside convinces the average person that it must be good (and crowded) inside.

True but with these small independents brands i know its not fake .

 By: Watchonthewrist : September 13th, 2021-20:23
I speak to a lot of them and know there are more people wanting there products then they can produce in a year .

Don't be too quick to believe...

 By: patrick_y : September 14th, 2021-18:25
A lot of these independents are trying to cook up new ways to disguise supply. For instance, let's say they've got 200 watches to sell. Well, if they just put it on their website as "available" then there's nothing special about that. But if they put it o... 

hah remember that well in college

 By: Dchang81 : September 14th, 2021-00:48
was waiting forever outside and the line went around the building. it was practically empty inside. i really doubt this is the case for gronefeld, otherwise that'd be disappointing.

It's a business. Have empathy for the business owner...

 By: patrick_y : September 14th, 2021-18:28
If you were a business owner, how would you create more "immediate demand" when you needed to? The old luxury methodology is to create something beautiful, a store will pay for an item upfront and stock it for about 6-18 months for it to sell. Now, the ne... 

FOMO with these odd hoops people have to go through to get a watch

 By: Dchang81 : September 14th, 2021-22:14
i admit i've fallen for it too.

Exactly! And how do you create "Fear of Missing Out" in the consumer? Instilling that Fear is something that I used to explain to techies so they could understand consumer marketing.

 By: patrick_y : September 14th, 2021-22:19
And it's something that Silicon Valley understand very well and they've created a WHOLE ARSENAL of weapons that can be used to create and instill that FEAR. Those techies have made social media into a medium to create FOMO. And at the same time they've we... 

Believe the Gronefeld brothers to be genuine!

 By: Monopole : September 14th, 2021-02:29
I think it’s really hard to find watchmaking skills in the Netherlands, let alone people willing to relocate to Oldenzaal. My friends and I were lucky to have ordered the Remontoire; even then, we waited 3 years for the watches - Covid complications on to...  

The news release also mentioned that they will have a new watch to be announced later this year. So folks missing out on Principia may try to get the new one.

 By: Sfwatchlover : September 14th, 2021-02:37
I made an order for Principia about 6 months ago and I got an allocation that is around 150. The wait time i was told at that time was 18-24 months. So, I still have 12-18 months to go. From the Gronefeld news today: “Since 2015, we have been working on a... 

Thanks for sharing the news about the new creation. I clearly didn’t hit the “link in the bio” 😁.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-07:01
My principia is supposed to arrive next summer, and I ordered 2-3 months ago. I just happened to have lucked out and found an AD who hadn’t filled all their slots. That being said, I’m partial to the light blue dial, which may be less popular than the sal... 

Congratulations that you will have your Principia by next summer! That is pretty fast!

 By: Sfwatchlover : September 14th, 2021-13:08
About one year ago my AD actually had 2 Principia in stock, but I was not ready. When I was ready, he sold out all his had and had to place a new order. I picked the torquoise dial. I do not mind the wait, as it gives me something to look forward to! Each... 

Thanks for expanding.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-15:37
And you ask good questions. Will they stop taking orders on principia’s for good, or will they limit production to 10-15 pieces a year, to allow for whatever they are currently working on (and the decennium tourbillion)? I had the opportunity to get the s... 

which salmon dial watch did you get?

 By: Sfwatchlover : September 15th, 2021-05:56

Will do.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 15th, 2021-15:45
I hope that your turquoise dial gets delivered well ahead of schedule. The wait time for salmon was dramatically longer at the ADs that I’d approached after I put my order for the blue (was inquiring for a friend). And then, magically, 3 weeks ago, there ... 


 By: Sfwatchlover : September 15th, 2021-19:29
It seems that the bulk of work is on the movement production due to amount of the handwork. The dials seem simpler to do relatively and should not be the bottleneck. The ADs will usually place orders first and then sell to the customers. You were lucky to... 

Lucky indeed 😁

 By: Lankysudanese : September 16th, 2021-01:04

Well Earned

 By: m2 : September 14th, 2021-06:20
I don’t think some of you accusing them of planning things out this way realize how hard it is to scale a skilled operation like that. Downsizing risk is huge too if the economy turns. It’s not like you can just go outside and hire 10 people that can fini... 


 By: Lankysudanese : September 14th, 2021-07:02

Dear fellow Gronefeld fans

 By: matto1 : September 14th, 2021-19:02
I was lucky to receive my Principia last Spring and it is an awesome watch. There may still be one (gold case) available in the US at retail. DM me and I'll point you in the right direction if you missed the boat and want one in your collection.

All this talk of the market “discovering” the independents and all of the folks behind these brands parroting each other how they “never expected this when we started x years ago”

 By: ChetBaker : September 15th, 2021-07:13
I wish all of them well, and the Grönefeld Bros in particular, but let’s not ignore the elephant in the room: all of this would not have happened had governments not started printing money. Let’s see how many are strong enough to weather the storm of a su... 


 By: Lankysudanese : September 15th, 2021-08:18
There’s some truth to what you are stating. Time will tell

very true.

 By: Gelato Monster : September 16th, 2021-03:05
I believe the gronefeld are in a very good position now thus dont need to rush launch. They are smart and will not launch new piece unless its developed to absolute perfection and at the right timing. There are other independents who are barely borderline... 

Good points, GM.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 16th, 2021-08:57
One thing is for sure: whatever their next masterful creation will be, I am 100% certain that I won’t be able to afford it. So I’ll settle for my principia 😂😂

I suppose there is no guarantee that new creation will be as gorgeous and as successful.

 By: Gelato Monster : September 16th, 2021-09:02
To be uniquely gorgeous and desirable is one thing . To be technically ingenious is another thing . To be commercially successful is another different thing. To be all of the above and collector grail is exponentially more difficult 😁

You continue to shed collecting pearls, my friend

 By: Lankysudanese : September 16th, 2021-09:16


 By: Gelato Monster : September 16th, 2021-10:44

Do you own any of their creations, Justin.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 16th, 2021-15:36
If not, ever been tempted?

Why not both? They are very different, in terms of tech and aesthetics.

 By: Lankysudanese : September 17th, 2021-04:08
They’d compliment each other well, IMHO.