sham1
8983
I only have nine watches
and even then there are a few I do not wear that often. As much as watches are meant to be worn, sometimes the pride of ownership is enough for me to keep the watch as it gives me immense pleasure. Right now for example, I have been stuck at home for a month watching Netflix and seated next to the nine watches. Pure bliss 
Any thoughts on this Urban Jurgensen
This is a rare stainless steel UJ 1140 ie it is in 40mm and spots the proprietary P4 movement. Limited to only fifty pieces, the UJ1140 had previously only been produced in precious metals so this stainless steel case is a welcome departure. Unlike salmon...
Thank you very much Nico!
I don't know how you do it but you are generally the first to reply to my posts! I like the Urban Jurgensen as it in steel and the dial is gorgeous in my opinion. Anyway, I already own a lovely Mortitz Grossmann so perhaps I should seriously consider this...
I think so too!
Quite ironically, my last two watch purchases have been steel watches and I have two steel Pateks incoming this year and next. Maybe being retired only allows me to consider cheaper watches or perhaps I am finally getting more mature horologically and app...
I like the way you said that I will 'need' one!!
I have seen a couple of our friend, Mike H's Laurent Ferrier's which are lovely but I prefer my watches manually wound unless we are talking about that Moritz Grossmann Hamatic!
As an alternative...
I'll suggest the Parmigiani Kalpa Hebdomadaire. These are priced very well for what they are. Perhaps a bit more expensive than the UJ, but you get a rose gold case+deployant clasp, 8 day power reserve, and a manual wind movement that looks like nothing e...
Thank you for your suggestion
but somehow I have never really fallen for Parmigiani's offerings. I have met the man and he is a lovely chap but am somehow not too keen on his watches especially the rectangular ones.
The Parmigiani designs are definitely on the quirkier side and not to everyone's taste
My hope is that these will show up heavily discounted on the grey/secondary market in the near future as a result Regardless, I think the UJ would make more sense in your case given that the MGs you mentioned are very similar in style to your piece unique...
I am pretty sure
that you are right about the Parmigiani in the used market. In fact, I think Grossmann may be affected similarly. I have just sent an email directly to Soren Peterson, the CEO of UJ who I had met once to ask him how I can obtain this watch. If it is meant...
Sham1, do consider another look at the LF micro
The picture is by Peter Chong, hopefully he doesn't mind me sharing it here. The quality is pretty incredible. Like you, I had issues with automatics in general but made an exception for this and the new Grossmann auto. Look at the inward angles, black po...
Thank you for your reply!
The Laurent Ferrier micro rotor is undoubtedly the best finished micro rotor in the market, I would not disagree. I prefer the MG Hamatic simply because instead of a micro rotor, the hammer and pendulum movement to me seems more attractive, perhaps due it...
Regrettably I am unable to join you in your quest
My watch budget for 2019 has been used up. In fact so has the budget for 2020! So if I am lucky I will be able to get myself the above UJ 1140 in steel. I seriously hope you get the LF and Hamatic, especially the latter because MG really needs a bigger au...
The watch nerd in me favours one underrated element of the LF micro-rotor: its natural escapement.
While finishing is arguably the most prominent feature of the LF, I find a natural escapement always fascinating. It was originally Breguet's idea two centuries ago, to have an escapement with (little to no) sliding friction, back in the days when modern ...
I love the Galet Square in particular
or one of the round Galet Micro Rotors but in 39mm instead of the standard 40mm
I realy like this UJ a lot . Love that Dial and the numerals
👌🏻😘 thanks for the post my friend .
You are most welcome my friend and thank you for the feedback!
It is nice to buy a gorgeous watch that does not break the bank too badly for a change!
well, after owning mine for nearly 3 months....
I can't recommend enough an UJ piece...it's also powered by a P4. somehow I cannot connect myself with the Grossmann pieces... ...
You have a lovely Alfred!
I love everything about your watch apart from the 42mm diameter. I wish they had made it 40mm because I would choose it over the 1140 in steel.
honestly??...before deciding for the Alfred...
I was also trying some other 1140 models in steel that they had at the manufacture in Biel...although my wrist is small, I simply felt the 1140 was too small for me...the 42mm is just perfect for me...
You are lucky my friend
as you have the right sized wrist to wear most watches. I unfortunately do not!
I agree totally!
With limited funds and only one watch to choose from, the 1140 seems like a wise choice. Could you tell me how accurate has your Alfred been?
my impression...+1-2sec/day....it's a superb caliber
looking forward for your photos here...
That is amazing accuracy!
I am quite impressed by some of these brands that do not publish the accuracy of their movements but actually attain a higher accuracy than those that do publish theirs like Patek Philippe, Lange, Rolex and Grand Seiko. For the record, my Moritz Grossmann...
hey, would you expect any compromise on that at this price segment??...
at the end of the day, it's a high-end watch, and although people today are primarily focused on design, for me, a watch its foremost....a watch, not a piece of jewelery, so it must give the maximum as a time measuring instrument...well, just old school p...
I could not agree with you more.
Accuracy in a mechanical timepiece is the ultimate compliment to the watchmaker/manufacturer and an indication of a job well done. And I do expect it at any price range which is why two decades ago, I was overly impressed by the Nomos that I had bought wh...
The Grossman is a nice watch but this UJ is much more special, if I can use this word
The dial is something you don’t see to often , and the applied numerals with that beautiful polish just pop. If choice given , I would go for the UJ in a heartbeat. Zsolt.
Thank you Zsolt for your valuable feedback!
Yes the dial is reminiscent of a Breguet or even a Voutilainen! I have made enquiries to a couple of London dealers since the UJ network does not cover South East Asia regrettably.
Agreed!
But personally after having seen the watch in the flesh, I am inclined to say that the colour of the dial looks better in the photos so I decided not to get it. Instead I think the new Alfred in 40mm might be the one to get. ...
Very different watch
I like the case of the UJS. The Grossmann is a bit chunkier. So which exterior aesthetics that you prefer in the end is subjective. However, I would rate the Grossmann a few steps ahead in terms of finishing.
Thank you for chiming in!
I always want to learn more about finishing. Without putting you on the spot, could you say more about what makes the finishing better on the MG? I've only seen pictures of the UJ, but it looks like there are some interior angles chamfered, etc. I believe...
Ok here is my take
I will just describe them. Using the MG Vintage as a reference(because I have experience with the Atum/Benu model), 1) there are gold chatons around the jewels, with screws to hold them down. This is simlar to Lange but MG went one step further. The chato...
That is a great answer, thank you!
Now I need the dial and handset of UJ (guilloché, etc.) with the hand finishing of MG!
That would be the ultimate watch!!!
Who would need a collection?!! Just one such watch would be perfect!!
Somehow this might affect the price :-)
The finishing of the UJ is 'good enough' in my opinion. It is the dial we tend to see more of while wearing a watch
I am pretty sure you are right
that the people at MG spend more time hand finishing their watches - at least on their incomparable hands!! And I must thank you for your well thought of and elaborate reply comparing the finishing of both brands.
Great summary, though I'd like to add an important point - MG also polishes the ratchet&crown wheel teeth, something surprisingly uncommon to see but is a beautiful effect.
The raised chatons are another great point - while Lange needs to flat polish only the surface and inner concave of the chaton, MG has to also polish the outer flank/rim of it. The clear sapphires used also makes it distinctive in aesthetics over many oth...
Totally!
I have the privilege of knowing our esteemed friend personally and it is almost unfair that someone so young can be so knowledgeable!
Thank you my friend for enlightening us and especially enlightening me!
I have always been in awe of the finishing at Moritz Grossmann which is said to be better than that of Lange, which is high praise indeed. Arguably it offers a more finely finished movement than the Urban Jurgensen but it is like saying that a Lange offer...
Thank you very much for saying so!
I was beginning to wonder when someone would say something favourable about the Grossmann. I agree that the finishing of the Grossmann is superior to a Lange and even the UJ but we are in the golden age where movement finishing seems to have taken priorit...
the dial is mesmerizing..
Although I like the decoration of the movement, the dial side really speaks to me. very nice choice
Thank you!
I agree that the dial takes some beating and in that unusual colour too. Afterall, it is the dial that we tend to stare at more than any other part of the watch.
Yes making the watch in steel
is always a touch of genius at this price level. Laurent Ferrier did it and so did Patek with its new Calatrava 5212A. Imagine a steel Lange!
Thank you for sharing with us!
Very nice and I particularly like the raised numerals on yours.
UJ in a way has better value proposition...
great details on the dial, applied numerals, multiple guilloche & the tear drop lugs... speaking about the movement, strong offer too. Best, mahesh.,
Thanks Mahesh!
UJ definitely offers better value than the Grossmann. It looks like the complete package especially in my preferred stainless steel case.
Just to say some words in favor of MG since I'm biased...
Although the UJ is less expensive, I'm not quite sure I'd consider it better value. When you take into account the cost required to develop a unique complication like the hammer winder, the higher level of finishing, and the gold case, I think the MG more...
Good point!
I must confess that it is difficult to ignore the movement of the Hamatic - what a refreshing change from any other movement let alone other automatic movements. I seriously need to try it on!!
I. Love. This. Watch. !!! How could I ever take it off??? While I've been a great fan of Grossmann ever since their "dawn," I find their present offerings a bit too refined.
Beautiful pieces, yes, but this… A heart stopper! Grab it!!! (And love the champagne, by the way.) Good luck with your choice. Best regards, FH
Thank you for your feedback and encouragement!
I really wish I could try on the UJ before placing my order. The CEO, Soren Petersen, has kindly reserved one for me but I have always been worried about 40mm dress watches. Yes the UJ has nice lugs but.........we shall see!
Yes (sigh), trying a watch on.... The ultimate arbiter!
You certainly have a right to a reservation about 40mm. Of course this depends on wrist size. But what struck me immediately was the versatility of the piece. You, yourself, pointed to this mentioning that strap. So my thoughts about 40 may be more forgiv...
I must confess
that I did not expect so many responses to this piece especially only a day before I had posted a thread on two gorgeous Moritz Grossmann watches have received a third less views and responses. I always feel if a watch is meant to be mine, it will be
Your KV is spectacular
and as you probably know that for many years, Kari spent a lot of time at Urban Jurgensen hence his influence noticeable on the guilloche dial and the hands. But the KV's movement takes some beating and is in a league above the UJ, as good as the UJ is.
I think you may be in error...
The movement is an UJ in-house movement from everything I have heard and read on the P4. I know their older PCs were Fredric Piguet movements and they acknowledged this on their website.
I have it from reliable sources
ie Monochrome Watches and SJX watches that confirm the the P4 movement is constructed by Jean Francois Mojon of Chronode. The older movements were Frederic Piguet as you correctly stated. Perhaps it is worth mentioning here that Kari Voutiainen and Jean F...
Today, I finally managed to view the watch in London
Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately, I found the dial colour not very appealing and the size of the watch a tad too large at 40mm. I did however buy myself a Rolex datejust in 36mm in steel. I shall cover that in a separate post. My first Rolex!!!
I let my bank account down!
But I hope to sell one of my watches to finance this unexpected purchase! The price of being retired!
Agreed
but unfortunately in this case it was not the size that put me off when I saw the watch but the colour of the dial was personally a bit of a let down. You need to see one to understand or perhaps it is just me!
Credit where due my friend
anyway, I did not like the watch when I saw it - I am relieved!
My objections are:
the sub-seconds dial is a bit too big-out of proportion to the dial; the case is too thick, especially when you consider that it contains a manual wound movement; and, maybe most of all, other than the design of the case and dial none of this watch is tru...
Thanks Mike for your observations!
I have a strange feeling that your list of objections might be longer for a RW Smith where the case is 13 or 13.5mm for a manual winding watch and the sub seconds dial takes no prisoners. But surely a movement made by Chronode is high praise indeed as the...
I understand that Chronade is high quality.
But UJS wants to act like the P4 is an in-house movement, and that's just stretching the definition. They are not alone when it comes to that. And yes, I'm not a fan of Smith's watches, though I am a fan of his talent.
Fair comment Mike!
Personally, I don't give much weight these days as to who makes a movement for a brand even if it is a misrepresentation. For me, as long as it is finished well and performs reliably and accurately, I can be bought. Okay, okay, of course there are other c...
I just want a little more honesty in advertising.
I know I'm beating a dead horse. And I have skin in the game. I have a WG 1140; thinking I was getting a well-priced, small numbers independent with an in-house movement. Then the true story slowly starting dripping out-at least for me. I'm sure many peop...
I always thought the term was 'sour grapes'! :-)
But you are totally justified Mike to feel the way you do. Brands should just come clean with the origins of their movement like Rexhep Rexhepi who does not hide the fact that many of the parts of his movement are outsourced but he does hand finish his mo...
Yes to LF. Same deal.
I'm not very familiar with Rexhepi's inner workings. (I'm starting to feel like I've taken Alkiro's place here with you!)
Ah the legendary Alkiro!
I wonder how my friend is. I am just glad I had the privilege to meet him in person as I am you.
I have to agree here
From everything I read, I thought the P4 was from the ground up a designed and built UJ movement, all in-house. I too thought the dial and case were UJ. Reading all the posts here there is not much UJ but more a collaboration of others. This is all fine b...
I think that there should be a body
to ensure that watch manufacturers do not make misrepresentations and that they are penalised/fined should they mislead the public, UJs are not cheap watches and if Volkswagen can be fined for misrepresenting its fuel consumption figures, surely this is t...
That is one of the points.
UJS watches are quite expensive. The Ophion that Noh is writing about is quite similar in appearance and also has a Kari case (in fairness the movement is a Soprod and not finished nearly as nicely as the P4) and it costs a tenth of the 1140 WG. I'm not s...
So I think we can safely say UJS is overpriced
for what they offer but ooops, we are not supposed to be talking about price here! Ophion offers better value no doubt although it does not have the history of UJS and the movement which some may say would be worth the additional cost. I just ordered a Mi...
What UJS history?
Isn't the present company a group of investors who have the rights to the UJ name. I do not believe there is any continuity of operations to the watch maker of the 1700s. This happens all the time in the watch industry. The rights to an old historical nam...
I think we tend to hear only of the success stories of independents
and not the failures so much and although the Smiths, Voutilainens and Journes have flourished, the majority have not. I guess one can say to succeed as an independent, one has to be the best at one's game. So many new companies take the 'safer' route by ...
UJS have never been out of business;
but like Breguet have had low-production eras. The present investor group is led by a Dane. And, by the way, Kari's "style" of cases and dials, to a large extent, come from UJS and not the other way around. His having perfected it UJS now relies on him ra...
Overpriced?!
Your argument is that because UJS use cases and dials made by Voutilainen and not "themselves" (Kari used to work for them), that they are overpriced? And yet a Voutilainen watch costs far more than a UJS. Perhaps they don't divulge such things because th...
Thank you for your feedback
I had mentioned that the UJS is possibly overpriced because very little of the watch is from UJS including the movement, arguably the costliest part of the watch. Kari's dials actually are not cheap if you look at the prices one has to pay for a Kari dial...
A lucky owner.
Brand new to this forum and love it! I actually own the first piece of the edition made. I have never owned a piece where I find myself slack-jawed staring at it as much as this one. It's genuinely beautiful in person. You will also never see anoter...mor...
Congratulations and thanks for sharing!
The watch looks great on your wrist and I wish you many pleasurable hours of ownership! I saw it but did not like the colour of the dial but that is merely my personal taste. And a huge welcome to this forum. You will enjoy it as much as I have I am sure!...
Thanks!
It's funny. I would never usually go with a champagne dial....but the moment I saw the light bounce off it i was smitten! Thanks for the welcom. Be well
[text deleted per moderator guidelines]
Taking the watch out of the safe to share on here made me realize that I simply don't wear it enough. Stay well.
Mr Bennett: participating on the forum one day and posting a FS practically the next . . .
. . . is at best not in keeping with the ethos of our community, and truthfully, more like bad form. I will be editing out the link in your discussion forum post. Please note there should be a degree of separation between discussion forums and Collectors ...
In Mr Bennett's defense (assuming that is his real name), he's only been a member . . .
. . . of our community for a few days, and quite possibly unaware of our traditions. A feeble excuse, but acceptable given he's a novice. I hope Mr Bennett endures and participates. Art
Maybe but
in his first post after his first sentence, he tells us how rare the watch is and how every time he looks at the watch he is slack jawed as it is so beautiful. He then goes on to say how smitten he was by the way the light bounces of the dial. I don't kno...
Wait, what?
I'm not quite sure what's happening here, and yes, that is my name. I stand by my commentary regarding how beautiful this watch is, that however has nothing to do with the personal circumstances dictating the potential need to sell it. My understanding wa...
Well, I think the point is that if you wanted to sell your watch
you should have proceeded directly to the Collectors Market Forum rather than post in the Independents forum just before advertising it for sale in the Collectors Forum. One could therefore argue that you were indirectly advertising the watch by your post...
Agreed but
what I said is relevant to this forum. The moderator has ruled. I am just letting you know what is expected of you here as per the forum rules.
Actually, probity and conduct count for a lot . . .
. . . on this site. It is, essentially, a virtual cocktail party. Just as you wouldn't hit up a person you've met for the first time at a cocktail party or country club to sell an insurance policy, one shouldn't engage in "pump-'n-dump" behavior here. Art...
Those things count for a lot
In every aspect of life. I would draw your attention to the posts in this thread questioning if I was even using my own name based on this discretion. Calling into question my character. It seems that the kangaroo court had me hung drawn and quartered bef...
I only have nine watches
and even then there are a few I do not wear that often. As much as watches are meant to be worn, sometimes the pride of ownership is enough for me to keep the watch as it gives me immense pleasure. Right now for example, I have been stuck at home for a mo...
First post!
Just posting to say I purchased this watch on Friday. Being shipped from the AD next week. I will figure out pictures next week and post one. Absolutely love this watch!
Congratulations!
I look forward to seeing your wrist shots. May I ask if you have seen this watch in the flesh?!
I have not seen it in the flesh....
...took a leap of faith. i know a guy who was able to check them out in New York, and he took lots of pictures, so on the basis of those, and the reputation of UJ, I took a leap of faith. Will post pics later this week!
UJ is a very good brand and your leap of faith is justified
I must commend you though on being brave enough to order a watch without actually having worn it. This is why I missed out on Rexhep Rexhepi's Chronometre Contemporain - I was too slow to react as there were no watches to try on. Still a 38mm Chronometre ...
Thank you!
The site is amazing so far. It was mentioned on another site I frequent as a great place to talk FPJ and independents, so here I am.
Independents are an exciting breed!
I hope they will all survive through these challenging times. There seem to be so many independents that we may not have heard of but who are terribly creative and I commend fellow purists who support these unknown brands. Only a few years ago, no one had...
Agreed!
In the last year I finally got interested in independents and it has opened up an entirely new world to me.
So...
FP Journe is certainly the top, and now of course I have added the UJ. I have also really been looking at Moser quite a bit lately, and the Ming World Timer is intriguing to me. But this forum is great because it exposes me to new brands. Some of them are...
I have tried on the Ming World Timer
and I think you will like it. Ming will be releasing a new watch on Friday 1 May at 1pm GMT in a limited annual production of 125 so that will be something to look forward to and will sell out in typical MIng fashion. I would recommend the following brand...
Appreciate it!
I was reading about Lang & Heyne but wondering what the leadership shuffle means for them? Also very intrigued by some of the watches from Japan. I need to do more research on Ming for sure. I am having trouble figuring them out. It appears he is a photog...
You have no excuse my friend!
The iphone takes exceedingly good photos! And yes, the purists here take some excellent photos apart from me. I do not possess a smart phone (I know, I know, I am a living dinosaur! ). Ming Thien is most intriguing as he is a genius and perfectionist, hav...
Wow!
I really appreciate all the info on Ming and L&H! This is fantastic! I am really getting more and more interested in that WT. Might be on the shortlist soon. I have also been interested in the Gronefeld Principia as of late. So many great watches out ther...
The photo you posted is fine! :-)
Gronefeld is a great brand. I ordered a Remontoire last year which will be ready next year. The Principa is a gorgeous automatic rivaled only the Laurent Ferrier.
Thanks!
Some of the collections here are mind numbingly good. Sounds as if yours is included in that.
Everything is relative I guess
and mine pales by comparison against some really amazing collections here by samwan, watchonthewrist, mohannad, maltie, cmmnsens, mj23, themad druid, jay(eire), christian dk, mike h.......we are really spoiled here that many serious collectors of independ...
9 months and still going, Sham!
You should be very proud of yourself. You're in Vlad territory now!
Perish the thought!
That would require divine intervention and hopefully, God loves me more than that!!
