indignantdenial
984
Why not?
My local RedBar chapter(s) have that reputation among watch professionals and collectors alike that I know in their respective locations. You haven't had my experiences--fine, I grant you that in light of that my criticism is "too great". But given the experiences I've had with RedBar (and by the way, I wasn't insinuating the worldwide org), they leave a bitter taste to me. That's quite enough evidence for my point of view, so I don't really accept that I'm being too harsh, especially relative to my experiences and those of the many others with whom I've connected in my local communities.
To your second point: if people who are arrogant and stuck-up want to be with each other, that's fine, but it feels like it's silly to have social clubs for watches have bad vibes associated with them. Why would we want such a thing? You might say that I can go form my own club or go associate with another group but I'll raise two things to you: 1) I can't run or organize a club. My life doesn't allow for that. 2) The other club that does sound great (but no way to vet) is not one that I can attend due to its scheduling. Otherwise, I would agree that option 2 would be the way to go, and I'd love for that to happen. But it just isn't a reality for me quite yet. Maybe my work schedule will be more merciful so I can make time to attend the other club's gatherings.
Still, none of that nullifies the negative criticism the RedBar chapter(s) have attracted from professionals and collectors I know. All it does is present a way out for me. But that's not really my concern and neither is it the concern of the post: we're worried about systemic gatherings that are light and fun, but have room for serious engagement with the hobby without it being stuffy. That's where the brands should step in to give us a place to steep in watch culture and meet like-minded folk. That, to me, sounds like a very nice prospect and as Marc said, the sales will roll in with events like that.
The power of community engagement
Friends, This is an excellent video to watch. The importance of brand engagement with the community and how many Swiss brands “just don’t get it”. I found it interesting to hear of the possible parallels between the music industry and the watch industry. ...
Humans tend to be Tribal.
Join the Tribe that brings you the most joy. Others, who are inquisitive / perhaps not as happy, see happy Tribe members and.... More Happiness.
Agree 💯
Swiss brands need to support and foster tribes. And then engage with the tribes. Max from MB&F even calls the fans “The Tribe”. 🤝
Max listens and engages sincerely ....and this makes all the difference
Many Swiss CEOs just don't have the personality for these sort of things and that is fine ... they need to get folks on the management team that are cut out for executing community development strategies. I feel like Swiss brands executives overthink thin...
Just so.
I've never been invited to anything and being a "part of" the brand seems almost impossible. It's really too bad because I like meeting other knowledgeable collectors: there are events outside of the brands that allow for us to connect. But there's never ...
"Clubs are a drag," he said
I completely agree. I just don't fit in with the Hodinkee and RedBar crowds. However I will also say that I don't want my Watchmakers to be gregarious party animals. I expect them to be at the bench, early the next morning, sober and serious, putting toge...
I hear you ... a combination 360° is best
I used to attend the AP events in Singapore. They were fun and casual. Not stuffy. Some chats about watches and such but fundamentally they knew how to build a community. No ADs involved ... brand organized. I thought it was quite effective engagement.
You're "part" of the brand as long as your wallet is always open and you're spending regularly
Sad but true. I've seen it a million times. "Good" customers are frequent and prolific spenders. It's never about cultivating great ambassadors for the brand. "Buy once, forever grateful" isn't how these businesses operate. If you find one dealer or onlin...
Agree
The brand-AD events we see today tend to be exclusive (not inclusive) and rotate around those invitations to those that are most likely going to buy another watch. I equate the AD events like advertorials ... Thinly veiled sales events under the guise of ...
So that’s why they glare at me when I walk in with a beautiful Daniel Roth generation Breguet?
It’s showing them up? ;-) ...
And as someone who is familiar with the business side...
It's all about scalability... If you did a bunch of fancy events, and these events cost hundreds of dollars per person to attend sometimes, for those buy once people, your business would eventually not be getting good ROI on those events.
I'll try to respond to your comments in the way I know best ... I'm on my PC now and can type better than on my phone
1. Thanks for you extended responses. I am one to encourage discourse as I want to hear what is on the minds of other collectors. 2. I lived and worked in Silicon Valley in tech and saw 3 companies I was with go public. All three were disruptors and conti...
You're again thinking from your perspective and not from the brand's perspective.
Brands don't want casual pizza events. It doesn't reflect the brand. And it's laughable by others in the industry. Imagine a high end brand doing an event where only a very limited menu with pizza. Pizza lowers the perception of the brand. Brands aren't n...
We finally agree 😄 …
As a collector and customer, yes, I’m thinking about what I want. I want to engage more with the brand and get to know the people behind the products. And this is because I want to buy more and feel further vested with the brand and it’s success. So bingo...
Let's not be too critical of Redbar...
You say Redbar is stuck up and arrogant. I don't entirely agree - as I just see a very wide range of people who like watches whom are mostly not very well informed about watches. But saying what you claim is true... maybe all of those stuck up and arrogan...
Why not?
My local RedBar chapter(s) have that reputation among watch professionals and collectors alike that I know in their respective locations. You haven't had my experiences--fine, I grant you that in light of that my criticism is "too great". But given the ex...
I'm not suggesting this is true...
I'm not suggesting this is true. But some WatchProSite members would say Redbar members are arrogant. Some Redbar members would say WatchProSite members are arrogant. And some non-watch people would simply say, "Gee, I find them both to be arrogant; and f...
Well said ..
"Still, none of that nullifies the negative criticism the RedBar chapter(s) have attracted from professionals and collectors I know. All it does is present a way out for me. But that's not really my concern and neither is it the concern of the post: we're...
But if stores invited normal people...
If stores and brands invited normal people who do not buy watches regularly, whom are not making referrals, whom are not especially charming nor knowledgeable, just normal buy-once people, wouldn't that be a bad return on investment for the store? Keeping...
Seems more like a one-time buyer who adds no life to the party crying over sour grapes to me.
That's the more likely scenario. If you really add value to the VIP cocktail party or a Collector Event, they'll invite you. If they only have 20 seats and you're not likely to buy something and you don't add value - then you might not get invited. And no...
Brands/stores would pay YOU to come to a party!
However, due to our moderator rules, we're not allowed to receive checks! Or else I'd be a wealthy man! (joking).
I argee ... it must be a 360 degree approach with returns looked at from a long term POV
Again, events don't all need to be fancy. I have seen brands organize informal events at local bars. 6 pm to 8 pm. Drinks discounted by the bar. Win-win. The main point is the AD/Brands/Collectors want to have face time with each other. This is what commu...
In my opinion probably Panerai had the most enthusiastic and vocal tribe a few years ago.
I'm not sure how much corporate Panerai was involved but I've never seen a tribe like the worldwide club of Paneristis.
Agree ... it was a cult following and even if not an owner, one would be intrigued by the pure passion.
Brand have forgotten what it is like to be a collector ... or maybe they never knew ... they make watches but don't really understand the mindset of collectors.
Sad to say but true 💯
Shareholders and “silent investors” (who may be Authorized Dealers themselves). And if they are wise and want a long term sustainable business, they may want to seriously pace themselves and engage with the communities at large. Or else they will continue...
I spent a few days in Panerai Tribal Gatherings
but not as an active member, just a voyeur Nice diamond. Nice Panerai too. Nice cars too. It wasn't exactly a couple of bros and brewskis. But someone has to report on these gigs, right? Cazalea ...
I miss the days of the Panerai passion…photos always showed a great time with great watches.
Although I never attended, I enjoyed seeing the stories.
Thanks for sharing these pics ... they capture the moments well
I think at the end of the day, it is all about people. Not about watches, not about cars, not about champagne. But the props help make things interesting ... Reminds me of a buddy i had at college ... he was fun, sincere and smart. Not the best looking gu...
😃 expensive for sure in Singapore
But I went to college in America so yeah … not so fancy. 🤝
I think Paerai would "support" the Paneristis across the world. Some small sponsohrip support of community events and gifts and such.
This is exactly what I'm advocating that brands do more of. Win the heart and minds of the current and future collectors via direct and indirect engagement. 🤝
Agree 💯. Thats why i love the independents so much because most of them are very approachable and connected with there customers. For me a big plus .
Something bigger brands can learn from imho
Totally 💯 and still Max is doing extremely well
He manages to be engaged with collectors and still operate a profitable business. 🤝
Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and not considering the alternative...
This is like "Honk your horn if you like cookies!" Everyone who drives their car by this sign is going to honk their horn. Honk your horn if you don't like wealthy people getting all the attention and the perks! Heck, even the wealthy people will be honki...
Just to be clear on your point …
You are saying that the bandwagon is asking for brands and ADs to be inclusive. You are saying the brands and ADs need to sell watches, ROI etc and thus events should be centred around collectors who will buy a new watch and not those who have already bou...
Bandwagon is asking for everyone to be invited to special and exclusive events.
Your second paragraph really makes my words to make me look less favorable - almost a twist on my words. I stated a buyer should not expect to be invited to multiple events for years and years after buying one watch many years ago.
With all do respect, you've just started a thread that is poorly researched, accusatory of the watch industry, and like a charismatic speaker you've found a topic that 99% of the people will agree with you.
If I gave a speech telling the whole world that if I became Leader of the World that everyone would be able to freely buy Patek Philippe Nautiluses and Stainless Steel Rolex Daytonas at retail price, the world would cheer, but it would not be the way the ...
Bad comparison. Unfair comparison. Ludicrous comparison... Two completely different mediums...
While the post offers an interesting perspective on brand engagement, I believe it draws a flawed parallel between the music industry and the watch industry. While there are similarities in the importance of community and connection, the two fields operat...
Very well said. Totally agree.
I see watches are closer to audiophile equipment rather than the music they reproduce.
That would be a fairer comparison!
Funny coincidence, earlier this month I was at an audiophile's VIP cocktail party in Park City, Utah hosted by a store and Wilson Audio (a speaker brand) and now I'm just thinking about it and contrasting it to parties hosted by watch and jewelry stores/b...
Look deeper … ☺️
… and you may see that they are both industries driven by emotions. Non essentials. About the fans and the legends that created music/watches that bring us joy. How the passion of the fans can be borderline obsession for the music that will cause them to ...
Still apples and oranges... This post caters to mob mentality.
This whole post centers around one schadenfreude strategy. To get everyone riled up in agreement over something that is banal and illogical. Sure, I can get everyone in agreement that airlines should reduce their prices. Sure, everyone will agree with me....
Sorry that you don't seem to like my post Patrick_y
But I'll continue to share what I feel passionate about and encourage others to share their POV (including you). I do not feel the need to have everyone agree with me and it is refreshing for me to hear alternative perspectives. I also do not feel the nee...
Please avoid the sensationalist posts and the unrealistic one-sided commentary.
While your post is well-intentioned, it presents a somewhat idealized view of the watch industry. While Ariel Adams' perspective is valuable, it's important to consider the industry's realities. The watch and jewelry industry is often exclusive, and brand...
I’ll continue posting what I find
interesting and worthy of discussion with fellow collectors. I wish you a pleasant day ahead. ☀️ 🤝
Sorry but no ..
You are thinking quite literally ... security, product vs consumable etc etc. Forget about all that for a second ..(yes, come back to it for logistics planning and such) but keep your mind open. There is a problem today ... many collectors feel detached ....
Collectors need to realize this...
The Collectors need to realize the luxury industry isn't an industry that will give them daily updates. If they really want that, sign up for the brand's Instagram and Facebook page. Furthermore, collectors should realize you're buying a physical product....
Gosh, we agree again 😃☺️
That’s amazing … you just described everything that is wrong with the watch industry today. Bravo. 👏 Watches to me are far more than “objects”. They represent emotive elements in one’s life … my father’s watch is not just an object but a connection I feel...
Correct.
This is why the guys at one of the VC boutiques I go to from time to time are extremely friendly and kind with me. They're building up for the long-term sale and truthfully, they're right. When the time comes for my first VC, I'm buying from either of the...
Community and engagement are different things....
While I do think today brands are responsible for engaging their customers, the customers are the one's that need to create and grow community for themselves. People love free stuff, there's no limit to how much a brand can burn on marketing with zero sal...
Agree ...
It has to be a 360 degree approach. But at the end of the day, I can buy from chrono24. I don't need to "support" my AD. I have choices of which brand to buy. It would be great for communities to be proactive with brands I agree. But who needs who more? B...
IAMWATCH: The Hour Glass introduces IAMWATCH: A new community engagement platform for watch enthusiasts
Good to see this inclusive and casual community engagement event by The Hour Glass. It's a big event but I expect to see further smaller and casual off-shoot gatherings that try to bridge the gaps between collectors and brand. It is my belief that ADs and...