Unfortunately it is not a 'cheap' watch...

Jul 17, 2019,09:13 AM
 

It is around $40-$50k. I will not get a restored dial. I'm curious what it means by the dial has been cleaned. So far, all the collectionnure series from VC tend to look very minty. I don't know how they do it. Probably a new coat of varnish on the dial.

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Advice needed from Vintage collectors

 
 By: CL : July 16th, 2019-07:47
Hi Everyone... I'm heeding some advise from vintage collectors. I would like to know what is a yes or no for a vintage piece. 1) Original dial from the manufacture (Vacheron) but clean by their restoration team. 2) Hands and crown being changed by the res... 

I'm no vintage collector, but personally, I'd be fine with everything you listed *except for* the new hands and, most critically, the cleaned dial.

 
 By: FabR : July 16th, 2019-08:21
However, this is just me. While a new dial, even by VC itself, would be a huge no-no almost "objectively", I can understand that some collectors might be OK with a lightly cleaned dial on a 70+ year-old watch, if this is what you are implying about this p... 

Good points.

 
 By: CL : July 16th, 2019-08:32
They said dial is cleaned but not refinish or redial. Not sure what that means. Are you saying that cleaning the dial is a no too or you are referring to changing new dial? As for hands, they are referring to second hands. Does that make a difference?

The second hand alone sounds like more of a minor issue, while a "cleaned" dial would remain -- to me personally -- the bigger concern. (Of course a new dial, factory or otherwise, would have just killed the deal.)

 
 By: FabR : July 16th, 2019-08:54
So given what I understand, I'd probably not go for this watch. But again, my point is also that this issue ultimately comes down to a matter of taste, and my view here is certainly at a very "pure" end of the spectrum. Please make your independent decisi... 

Thank you for your comment.

 
 By: CL : July 16th, 2019-09:33
It is well appreciated. If I do purchase , I will share the process here.

For me the movement parts are OK as that is just needed to maintain the mechanism, I would be OK with the dial if its cleaned sympathetically which is better than replacing and 100 x

 
 By: templetowers : July 16th, 2019-12:46
better than a re-dial which would be a deal breaker for me. For me the main issue with hands is if they have original lume , if they don't then I would be less bothered. (Manufacturers normally replace older tritium lume with super luminova which never ha... 

Thanks for your comments...

 
 By: CL : July 16th, 2019-12:54
They are very useful and I will sure ask these details before making the final decision. I'm currently checking on 3-4 of the watches and will update here when I get the response from them.

Restoration

 
 By: PPJames : July 17th, 2019-04:44
I have many Pateks that have gone back to Geneva for restoration. Not only is the movement serviced, but the dial has been restored back to original condition. Most all collectors think this is sacrilegious. My decision to restore a watch, really begins w... 

Thank you for your sharing...

 
 By: CL : July 17th, 2019-06:08
Greatly appreciated. So, I gather that restoration of the movement is okay as long the bridge is original and only decorative fixing / rhodium plating was done. As for the dial side, the best is nothing was touched and if it was cleaned, I should ask to w... 

There are many differing opinions - you can see them visually in the posts of Nicolas and Art

 
 By: cazalea : July 17th, 2019-07:17
Personally, I don't like dials that are too stained or rough. And I worry about lume falling out of the hands or debris from the dial getting into the movement. So this one wouldn't catch my eye. But from Art's description it's rare, desirable, and having...  

Thanks for sharing :-)

 
 By: CL : July 17th, 2019-09:07
I do like patina on the dial but prefer the movement and case to be as 'pristine' as possible. The watch I'm considering is from VC Collectionnure series, so they have the advanatge of getting everything correct. They tend to keep the original dial but th... 

This is one point which is likely to spark debate

 
 By: watch-guy.com : July 17th, 2019-07:31
However every collector has some tolerance as to how much can be “ cleaned “ replaced or changed Be aware that if you want to sell every dealer will use these points against your watch value This may ir may not be relevant I personally prefer non cleaned ... 

Hi Julian...

 
 By: CL : July 17th, 2019-09:10
The watch I'm considering is from VC Collectionnure series. They said the watch dial is original, not replaced but cleaned. Second hand and crown are replaced with new. Bridge decoration are renewed. Do you understand what does cleaning mean?

It depends on your intentions...

 
 By: rdenney : July 17th, 2019-08:12
Do you intend to keep and wear the watch? Is it an affordable surrogate for a new watch? Or is its value as a collectible important to you? I have a 1946 JLC ref. 2953 that came to me with no seconds hand. In that case, it’s a no-brainer. But I was fortun... 

And I would love to show it.

 
 By: rdenney : July 17th, 2019-08:40
But the app won’t show the pictures I’m uploading. —Rick

Unfortunately it is not a 'cheap' watch...

 
 By: CL : July 17th, 2019-09:13
It is around $40-$50k. I will not get a restored dial. I'm curious what it means by the dial has been cleaned. So far, all the collectionnure series from VC tend to look very minty. I don't know how they do it. Probably a new coat of varnish on the dial.

I think not

 
 By: cazalea : July 17th, 2019-10:08
“Varnish” is not a common thing on dials that I’ve inspected. I have many dozens of dials from the Thirties onwards, remnants from the watch repair shop I bought from a friend. Most are NOS but others used. Very few are badly damaged even though they’ve b... 

Hi Mike...

 
 By: CL : July 17th, 2019-11:38
When you said for VC, you are not worried. Do you mean you will allow them to do more invasive cleaning? Or should I as them clearly if they have done any invasive cleaning? Thank you for sharing your experience.