Subexplorer
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Dear Nicolas: regarding the initials Ci...
... you know I have been trying to solve the mistery behind these watches for some time now.
My first impression was to agree with you, but as time passed, I changed my mind. Please note:
Cuerpo de Ingenieros or Compañìa de Ingenieros, is a zappers company belonging to the Army, not the Navy.
Though they got some members trained in U/W work this is not their speciality.
(By the way their divers as all military divers of any local Armed Forces are trained at the Navy Escuela de Buceo, in Mar del Plata city.)
By the other hand: if these watches really belonged to Compañía de Ingenieros, the initials of the Company should be C.I., not C.i, that is both letters in Capital letters, as in MN for Marine Nationale, and not "Mn".
BUT... these watches where bought by the Navy (Armada República Argentina... initials "ARA")
Please note: some Rolex Submariners are identified with the initials "A.R.A." above Submariner on the dials.
These watches where procured during the period of vinculation of our A.R.A. with Comex, (about 1978/79 through 1980´s) and I suspect there is a strong connection with Comex/Rolex in the dealing to supply these watches to our Navy. It is very possible that these watches were supplied not directly by Rolex, but from stocks of Comex itself!
I am very sure that If you get some good contact at Comex, they should explain this mistery better than any Argentine source.
Now, which is the real meaning of "C. i."? ... I suspect that these initials have nothing to do with the name of the Company or Corps which actually used the watches, but means something completely different.
For example: (and just guessing) "61.xxx Codigo de identificación" (Code of identification). In this case, it is acceptable that the first intitial is in Capital letter, and not the second.
Or ... may be, just guessing again... these intials "C.i." could have some connection with "Comex" being that the reason of the first initial, though I have not explanation for the "i" in this case. (e.g. "Comex instrument").
I hope these ramblings can be helpful to you, and eagerly look forward to your post with the results of your investigation.
I send you my best cordial regards,
Un abrazo mi amigo, y mucha suerte con esta importante investigación!!
Abel.
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An interesting diving watch with military provenance...Citizen reference 51-2273
NB: Updated today from 2013. Hello friends! I wish to share a recent addition to my collection of diving watches. It is a modest timepiece which clearly proves that a watch needs not to be an expensive or sophisticated one, to be considered one of the mos...
A few questions, Abel.
If I got you well, this watch was bought in the Navy Stores by the Argentinian Navy? Is the date in Japanese? ( The day, not the date, sorry ). Do you have the meanings of these 5 figures? Aaah, and as per the Argentinian Tudors, what references does your...
Well, the new Tudor Big Crown is a Snowflake, then... ;)
And there were some 7924 which were issued for the Argentinian Army, the famous CI. So I am wondering if, by chance, we could see one of them! Best, Nicolas
Ha ha you are right on the Black Bay one!...
But as Abel refers to a snowflake I guess it is the same than the ones issued to M.N, South Afracan... Issued 7924s...I've never seen one with military markings, do you? would be interested to see that!... Matt
Yes, I sawa few, and I am working on a topic about them.
The Argentinian Army had the 7924, the 7928, and the 7016, if we are speaking about Tudor Submariners. All marked " CI ". Best, Nicolas
Hello Nicolas! I´m glad you like this watch and story, and ...
... I suspected you could be interested in the story behing our military diving watches, as they have certain connection with Rolex and Tudors. We know very little about these watches, as it is very usual with historical facts in my Country, they are very...
CI stands for Cuerpo De Ingenieros, for me.
Some others said Cueropo de Infanteria, but I don't see the meaning and the necessity for the militaries by foot to have a diving watch... Very interesting piece of history, my friend... All the best,. Nicolas
Dear Nicolas: regarding the initials Ci...
... you know I have been trying to solve the mistery behind these watches for some time now. My first impression was to agree with you, but as time passed, I changed my mind. Please note: Cuerpo de Ingenieros or Compañìa de Ingenieros, is a zappers compan...
Don´t worry my dear friend... you´ll find the true path soon!...
By the way: I guessed a more probable meaning for Ci: "Codigo de inventario" (inventory code) I´m almos sure this is the more probable meaning of these initials! Good luck my friend! Un abrazo afectuoso, Abel.
Some great infomation and background there, Abel.
...and an intriguing watch. I have a couple of non-military Citizen divers of this era, nothing as interesting as your example. All that information means I now have to delve into my Oilfield diving books to look at Argentina's experiences. Once again, th...
Thank you for your comments BDLJ! If you are interested in...
... diving and its vinculation with oilrigs, there is somo interesting information in a link I will send you by PM. Best cordial regards, Abel.
Hi Abel I think I figured it out.
612 is class of 64 of the guardia infanteria which where active between 62 and 68, presesor to the comando infanteria the 1 mrn Coim . C,I, I agree the abrivation stands for Cedula de indentification . so class of 1962 recieved their comision in1964 -65 6...
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts Americano...
... it makes interesting reading for sure. I only wish we could confirm this somehow with a military source... though we both know it is not easy here! Thank you again my friend! Cheers! Abel.
It gets better
The next are 611 Rolex subs class of 69 + 2=71. It even coincides with the introduction of the various models Tudor and Rolex
Fantastic info !
Ever since I bought my tudor snowflake Ci, I am very interested in these watches. Like you I did a lot of research and managed to build a database that now has 32 examples. Most of them are ref 7928, 2 ref 7016 and 3 ref 9411. Unfortunately, not all data ...
Hello, Mark.
Will try to post something about these CIs later in October / November. This is a very interesting topic. I am impatient to discuss that with you. All the best. Nicolas
Hello Nicolas
Great, looking forward to it. If you happen to have any info on serials and issue number that you would be willing to share (database) please send me an email. Best, Mark
nice story!
Hey Abel, pretty funky and ice story!...funny to think that watches could be distributed in Argentina with the day in Chinese/Japanese? markings!?...I like these kind of stories!... thanks for sharing! Matt
I don't know about this specific watch ...
But it's a common practice for oriental watches to have two sets of language for the same weekday. One in oriental symbols (Kanji?) and another on an Occidental language. When the date changes, the weekday changes (slowly) to the correct language setting....
This is also standard on ETA movements too...
The day rings have two languages which reduces the number of parts references to cover all the languages needed. My Mido Commander (ETA 2824-A2) has a German and English day wheel, for example. Don
Thank you Don ...
I didn't know about this on ETA. I had one (my wife in fact) that had this movement but the week days were only in Turkish! Thanks, Nilo
Thank you Don! Didn´t know that ETA had a similar feature...
... till reading your explanation. As a matter of fact, didn´t know about this feature in my Citizen, till I tried to change the date, intrigued by the oriental inscriptions in the date window! Thank you for your explanation. Kind regards, Abel.
Thank you Matt for your comments...
... yes it is a very funly watch with an image typical of 1970´s diving watches, and an interesting story behind. The date can be set in oriental or in English language. I do not pay attention to setting the date in any of my watches anyway. The date is i...
a great aquisition Abel
it is always fascinating yet frustrating trying to find out information on military watches, but you seem to have done well in your research in these pieces. Citizen made and still do make excellent dive watches with bomb proof movements so its not a surp...
Hello Dear Graham! Thank you so much for your kind...
... comments. I´m glad you like the timepiece and its story. You are right: it is so frustrating not to find explanations to the many questions these military watches bring to collectors. That´s specially bad in some Countries like mine, where the preserv...
mine isnt a diver, but...
mine isnt a diver, but it has an unusual feature for its age. G On 20 May 2013 21:08, "www watchprosite" *Alert from:* www:watchprosite > *Posted By:* Subexplorer (registered) on May 20th, 2013 - 13:08 > > *Title: Hello Dear Graham! Thank you so much for ...
Ah, sorry for my mistake dear Graham. I feel it will be very interesting to know ...
... your Citizen anyway! Look forward to your post!! Best kind regards, Abel.
A great story of watches and friendship
You have a very nice looking diver which has many stories to tell. I am sure you will find more details about the watch and we would love to hear them Wear the watch in great health. Best Bill
Thank you Bill for your kind comments. I agree with you...
... that the main interest for me with this watch is the friendship gesture of my friend, which I will always remember each time I wear this timepiece. Of course, I´ll keep looking after more info about these Navy watches of my Country indeed! I send my b...
Great find!
Interesting watch. Congratulation, Abel! :) I love this kind of "de-tours" when collecting! At first it it has a very "common" divers look, but if you look closer it is has a very nice and interesting design. It looks very "deep" the dial, very 3d. Also t...
Hello Dear Blomman!! Thank you for your comments...
... and yes, I agree, the main interest behind this watch is its past history, the connection with our Navy, and most important, a generous friendship gesture from a dear friend who shares same passion with me for watches. You are right with the deep dish...
Abel, i think you will...
Abel, i think you will find its Kanji as they are a Japanese Brand. G On 21 May 2013 20:59, "www watchprosite" *Alert from:* www:watchprosite > *Posted By:* Subexplorer (registered) on May 21st, 2013 - 12:59 > > *Title: Hello Dear Blomman!! Thank you for ...
Thank you dear Graham! Yes, I suspected it was Japanese...
... but as I am a complete ignorant in oriental languages, had my doubts. Japanese was most probable though, taking in account the Japanese origin of this watch. I am currently wearing it in English language, in spite of the fact I never pay attention to ...
Nice find Abel!...
and a great collection of information! I love the navy / comex connection in the history of the tactical divers, very interesting history. Cheers Tony
Thank you Tony! I enjoy so much sharing my watch here...
... regarding the connection of our Navy diving watches with Comex, it surely is ery interesting, and very little known yet, though this connection undoubtely existed. I hope new information will be found in a near future. Thank You!! Best cordial regards...
Sorry for my late jump in...
... Congrats! A great fine. A rare gem even here in Japan - have never seen this before. A very respectable brand and is still a great brand. Thanks for showing us the pics! Wow! Ken
Thank you Ken! I´m glad I could surprise you with this model....
... being you in Japan! Nice to share this old piece here! Best cordial regards, Abel.
I am starting to get interested in these old Citizen and Seiko Divers.
Did a quick search here and found this cool post. Again! This old boys are a little older than Abel's great example. Collection in progress. Bill ...
I love this Citizen Divers, strong pieces.
Bill, I show the same watch from other view. All the best Juan ...
Hola Juan! We need to solve the mistery of the true "Ci" meaning!! ...
... Un abrazo mi muy estimado amigo! Abel.
I think "Ci" is "Control de Inventario" .......
.......because Navegación is the old remark to make diference between equipments on board or at ground in materials for fixed dotation and I think it is change in the 60's because ground and onboard materials were segregated in consumable or fixed materia...
Hi Juan! Control de inventario...
... I like that! I had figured Codigo de Inventario but Control makes sense. Would like to confirm that. I definitively discarded Cuerpo de Ingenieros or cuerpo de Infanteria long ago. Un abrazo mi amigo!!
Nice score abel
I have come across the same sort of Citizen watch before but never made the link to la fuerza armada . I can collaborate your story. Good on you for doing an in-depth study !
Old posts never die
Great watch and a very interesting info.. Always nice to be able to add your own history to one of these pedigree watches. Goes to show how little we know
Thanks a lot Rockethier! There are a lot of things to discover and know better about our military watches...
... regretably there is so little info available! Always nice to share our finds here! Thank you for your comments! Abel
Very, very cool piece of history and an interesting watch!
The paddle hands are very interesting and the history behind it makes for a very exciting piece. Thanks for updating it (would never have found it otherwise) And hope you will enjoy it for decades to come!
Thank you so much Km for your kind comments! Merit of updating this old post goes to Bill and other friends...
... commenting it. Some mysteries around Argentine military diving watches still remain though! Cheers! Abel.
Thank you so much Remarque! Glad you enjoyed...
... the post! It was all the feedback received along the thread that made it really interesting and I thank all participating friends for that! Cheers! Abel