Alkiro1
38081
Limited Editions in the watchmaking industry. Where are the "limits" in terms of number of timepieces made?
Hi all,
I think this subject has already been discussed here but I didn't find a recent thread.
Blomman's recent post about his JLC Tribute to Geophysic made in only 58 pieces inspired me to ask you your thoughts about Limited Editions (LE).
http://www.watchprosite.com/jaeger-lecoultre/jaeger-lecoultre-tribute-to-geophysic-on-the-wooden-beam/2.1144231.8856066/0/
What could/should be a "true" LE for you in terms of watches made (50 like the P15, 100 like the MB 1858 chrono tachymeter for each materials, less, more...)?
Do you think we have to make a link between a LE and the total of watches made by a brand yearly such as Omega for instance? Can we call a 2000 pieces LE an "exclusive" one? May be too many LE are available today. A question of marketing?
The number and importance of complications offered have to be taken into account too. A watch with a minute repeater, chrono and perpetual calendar is certainly more difficult to produce in great quantity compared to a simple three hands for instance (not with an enamel dial of course).
I "only" own three LE in my collection. My Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Fondation "Time for the trees" second edition launched in 2002, my Emil Lange (250 pieces) and a Jörg Schauer (50 pieces).
Regarding my AP, it has been made in 450 pieces "only" in steel (50 in yellow gold and grey dial) which is obviously too much for me, more particularly if I compare it to the first edition and its 250 pieces only made in steel (I owned it too but I preferred the second edition with the Oak on the dial so I sold it).
To be honest with you, I would have preferred a maximum of 100 pieces made in steel for the second edition for instance.
100 could be, for me, the maximum number of watches made to be considered as a "true" LE.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks for your comments and inputs.
Best wishes
Alkiro
Limited Editions in the watchmaking industry. Where are the "limits" in terms of number of timepieces made?
Hi all, I think this subject has already been discussed here but I didn\'t find a recent thread. Blomman\'s recent post about his JLC Tribute to Geophysic made in only 58 pieces inspired me to ask you your thoughts about Limited Editions (LE). www.wat...
I think it's demand of the brand. If Rolex releases a classic Submariner with a few modification it will be a limited edition even if they make 5000.
My Polaris is limited to 768, too much to make it really exclusive IMHO. I have a piece " edition special" doesn't mean anything for me I have in my target the Montblanc you mentioned limited to 100, pretty hard to find In the mid 90 Jaeger Lecoultre laun...
Thanks for your input Tyo. Yes I'm with you on your last point
If we consider that Rolex sells almost 1 million timepieces per year, a specific limited edition of "only" 5000 pieces could be considered as a "true" LE for them and Rolex collectors. At the same time, a brand like A. Lange & Söhne which makes few thousa...
Dear Tyo there is one in Paris
for sale at antoine de macedo Boutique PM me if you wish. Best, Patrickh ...
A limited edition is no real limited edition
If a manufacturer would never produce more items
And a le is no real le
If a manufaturer can change one little detail and count again. I think there are many of those le.
I'd say regardless of overall production numbers
up to 250 pieces I would accept as a Limited Edition but only if it is really unique in a few aspects, so not just a special colour dial of a watch that otherwise is produced exactly the same in the thousands.
Thanks CC. Yes very true.
If I can make a parallel with Only Watch, a "unique piece" with just a different colour for the hands can't really be considered as a "unique piece" for me. Best wishes Alkiro
The amount of different LE of a manufacturer is more important to me than the number each of these are limited to.
A LE should be something special. If a manufacturer only releases one LE for a special event (e.g. Company Anniversary or Good cause) in 5 years and this is limited to 500 pieces, it is more special to me, than a LE of 100 pieces of a manufacturer of the ...
Thank you very much my friend for your input. I agree with you. Especially about the number of LE launched by a brand. Very few and spaced out is better (of course, if it's really common, it makes no sense)
And if you have very few LE, a very limited number for each of them and a link with a real special event may be you have what we can call a "true" or winning LE. Best wishes Alkiro
There are very few true limited editions.
A limited edition for me is a one shot production of watches. For example, the Amvox II. If we had the first generations ( Ti, Ti PVD Black and Platinum ) it cold have been a true LE. But we had so many iterations that it is not limited anymore. I don't e...
Thank you Nicolas
I particularly agree with you about the "one shot production". A watch which has its own history and which won't be produced anymore. Regarding the PP 5100 Ten Days, 3000 of them were produced in different material. May be it's too much to be truly consid...
Limited vs exclusive
I believe a limited edition can be any number as long as it is limited to that number (as long as it is not ridiculous). Exclusive refers more to how many are produced, and here a number is very important. It is then up to the buyer to decide on if he agr...
One of the problem here is to define what's "ridiculous" as a number. Not really easy 250, 500, 1000... ?
But I understand your point of view between limited and exclusive. That's why we have to make a link with the overall production of a brand to define it in my opinion. Best wishes Alkiro
It depends on the watch.
As an example different "limited" ROO versions are not really limited. There are just slight differences between the versions. Another end are the Advanced Research watches of Patek. Let it be 100 pieces of 5250G, 300 pieces of 5350R, 5450P or 5550P or ev...
I agree with you about ROO LE. Unfortunately, too frequently, it's just "cosmetic" changes.
But regarding PP that you know very well, do you think that a LE of 100 pieces rather than 500 would not be sufficient? I understand your feeling about the supply and (huge) demand (and may be the speculation) about PP. If they could (would?) reduce the n...
I try to see these AR watches from Patek's perspective.
They represent new and untested technologies. What Patek wants is to allocate those watches, as much as they can, to individuals actually wearing those. Each and every watch coming back for repairs or service will go to the Advanced Research department. W...
Your last sentence is very relevant in this context in my opinion.
Many thanks for your point of view Kari and more specifically about PP. Best wishes Alkiro
Too often the limited editions appear with slight modifications again and again.
The new technologies introduced in the Advanced Research models appear slowly and quietly to nearly all new watches. Take the new Spiromax balance spring with a terminal curve and an inner boss of 5650G. That development should result terrific accuracy. W...
Marketing departments have probably too much "power" today and if you combine this element with the fact that the competition between brands is really strong you can understand that LE are, may be, one of the best solution to sell watches...
...even if they can serve the brand itself badly. Best wishes Alkiro
Let's put it this way:
I checked my PP box and found 5 limited edition Patek in platinum. I started to to think why I bought these limited editions and the reasons were: - 5100P: an unique chronometer movement with 10 days power reserve. Fantastic and special case, nice deep bl...
It depends on the brand...
but if we look backwards, Patek made some of their nicest watches in platinum. And the nicest of the nicest were limited. This thing, in my opinion, started to change from 40th anniversary Nautilus and the diamond indexes. But that's just my personal opin...
I was very negative in the beginning
but in metal the watches looked quite good. However, I would not buy a watch where it's written to the dial "Coca-Cola Adds Life". And when I do not like that kind of add, why would I want to have "Nautilus 1976-2016"? The text is not very visible, but it...
I have made so many mistakes in the past
that nowadays I do not pay any attention what others think but just follow my own taste. Best, Kari
I think it depends on the watch
Most of my watches are LE, because I found they happen to be the ones I find most interesting. My PAM449 and Portuguese are both 750 piece LE, I think that is a good number. Obtainable while not in every watch shop. My GS is 500. Now to address another is...
Many thanks Harry for your thoughts about this topic. I know that we have not only one answer and I thought it was interesting to know how PuristS feel about that.
Thanks again for your input my friend 👍 Best wishes Alkiro
There shouldn't be any hard and fast rule on the number in a limited edition.
The purpose of the limitation should determine the size (although the 7007 Bond Seamasters a couple years ago certainly pushes the outer limit of my argument!). But there does seem to be too many LEs these days, which cheapens the idea of them. And too ma...
All above points including but not limiting to % of production, brand, difference of complication, etc., all make perfect sense to me.
And on top of those, I also have a personal evaluation criteria: how much is the chance I will see the watch on a non-purist's wrist. Some LE of Omega, AP, RM, Hublot, IWC etc, even to some extent Patek, can be easily spotted on the wrists of rich kids. A...
Interesting topic
First I think we need to separate between "limite edition" and rare/exclusive. A production run could be a LE no matter what number if stated before launch. BUT, marketing right now is mixing these things up to sell more watches. "Oh, its a LE, very rare"...
Interesting to read all the different point of views. For sure, there's no only one answer.
My feeling is that too many LE have been launched over the last years among all the brands and the marketing departments are may be too present today. Fortunately or not, watchmaking is a business and the main goal of listed groups such as Richemont or Th...
Many collectors, few appreciate
You have to be clear about why you are collecting watches. Too many brands are selling bragging rights, xx of xxx. The owner has no connecting to the watch, and the watch will be resold as soon as something bigger and better comes along. Let's ignore the ...
Thank you Jim for your point of view.
I particularly agree with you on the point that you have to love the watch first independently it's a LE or not. And what about your Chopard! Just WOW 😳 Best wishes Alkiro
LE has become nearly meaningless
For me, the market is so saturated with LE models that LE status is not a consideration for me at all. All watches are limited in that they will eventually cycle out of the collection. Most LEs are barely more limited than this in my opinion. It's just an...
This is a real limited edition for example...
and different than any other subsequent concept created... 150 pieces (2002-2004) ...
I grant you this is indeed limited...
But for my own interest or purchase intent the fact of how limited it may or may not be does not carry a high weight in my evaluation. But I realize my interest is not the same as everyone else's; I can see why true LE status is important to some. That's ...
Many thanks Brandon
You're absolutely right about the saturation of the market with too many LEs. They're killing the goose that lays the golden eggs in my opinion. Best wishes Alkiro