LeCoultre Master Mariner Deep Sea US: Authenticity Guide

amanico · 2023-02-01T07:35:20Z

Uncover the mystery of the Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Mariner Deep Sea E558. Amanico's detective work questions authenticity, revealing insights into vintage JLC collecting.

amanico

WPS member · Jaeger-LeCoultre forum

8 replies2856 views3 photos

Amanico's meticulous investigation into a peculiar Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Mariner Deep Sea, initially encountered at the Heritage Gallery, serves as a crucial reminder for collectors to exercise due diligence. His detailed analysis, questioning the watch's originality based on dial features, hands, movement, and market documentation, highlights the complexities of authenticating vintage references. This deep dive into the E558 reference underscores the importance of community expertise in navigating the often-ambiguous world of vintage watch collecting.

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During one of my visits at the Heritage Gallery, in 2008 or 2009, I discovered a strange watch, a curious version of the Master Mariner Deep Sea, with an intriguing dial, displaying the day, the date, with " nipple " indices, and some touches of orange, with the " HPG " mention at 9 o'clock.

I wondered if it was a special version dedicated to the US Market, or if it was a reassembled watch, I mean a case housing a dial which belongs to another reference.

Different things made me doubt about this watch:

1/ I started to check all the catalogues, the European or american ads I could find here and there, and I didn't find anything. No evidence about a supposed existence, no mention, nothing.

The European Catalogues:

An American document showing the American version of the Master Mariner Deep Sea, called " Barracuda ", in the US.

2/ The hands are " weird ", to say the least. Way too short, as if a watchmaker didn't find any other to put into this watch. They obviously don't go with this watch.

3/ The movement is outsourced. The reference is the Cal 164, which comes from A.S. Curious choice, for a E 558 Master Mariner Deep Sea, which can be seen as a quality diving watch with its normal and noble Cal 883. Why downgrading it with an AS movement?

The Cal 883 which is housed in the E 558:

4/ Last but not least... A Lecoultre Master Mariner Deep Sea was issued for the US Market, and very similar to the European version. The main difference is that the dial is signed Lecoultre, rather than Jaeger Lecoultre. So, once again, how can we justify the existence of a Day Date version?

The US Lecoulre Master Mariner Deep Sea, Ref E 558 ( Credit Amsterdam Vintage Watches, Sothebys )

The European:

Hence, I put that topic in a part of my mind, and I spent some time, regularly, trying to dig a bit deeper into the universe of vintage diving watches from Jaeger Lecoultre, Jaeger AND Lecoultre.

When I received the " The Collectibles " book, I had the surprise to read, Page 442, that " some Barracuda watches, seemingly reserved for the American market, were equipped with Cal 164..."

During these last 8 or 9 years, I found evidence that this statement was related to a wrong reference, and that the watch in question was reassembled.

Indeed, I found at least 4 different Master Mariner Deep Sea Day Date, with the same dial, housing the same Cal 164 from AS, BUT... Coming with a different case and a different reference, the Ref 9513!

1/ 9513 Credit Heritage Auctions:

2/ 9513 Credit Brink67:

3/ 9513 Credit Firekids:

4/ 9513 Credit Select Watch Tokyo:

With a picture of the famous Cal 164:

The hands are much more harmonious, the bezel matches with the color of the outer part of the dial.

It often takes some time to solve a mystery...

Best,

Nicolas

About the Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Mariner Ref. E558

The Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Mariner Deep Sea Ref. E558 is a notable example within the brand's Master Mariner line, distinguished as a purpose-built diver's watch. It represents Jaeger-LeCoultre's venture into robust timepieces designed for underwater use, aligning with the growing demand for sports watches in the mid-20th century. This reference is part of a broader collection that emphasized durability and water resistance.

Typically, the E558 features a stainless steel case, often with a diameter around 39-40mm, and is equipped with an automatic movement. The standard European version houses the Jaeger-LeCoultre Caliber 883, a self-winding movement known for its reliability. The dial configuration usually includes luminous hour markers and hands for legibility in low-light conditions, characteristic of a diver's watch. Water resistance was a key attribute for this model, reflecting its intended use.

For collectors, the E558 is significant as an early and relatively rare Jaeger-LeCoultre diver. Its design cues and technical specifications place it firmly within the era of classic dive watches. The distinction between European and US market versions, particularly regarding dial signatures (Jaeger-LeCoultre vs. LeCoultre), adds a layer of complexity and interest for enthusiasts seeking original and well-preserved examples.

Specifications

Caliber: 883

Case: Stainless Steel

Diameter: 39mm

Dial: Black

Water Resist.: 200m

Crystal: Plexiglass

Key Points from the Discussion

The watch in question, despite its questionable authenticity, was featured in a new collectible book, raising concerns that collectors might accept its legitimacy without further scrutiny due to its inclusion in a publication associated with the Manufacture.
A prominent contributor to the collectible book, Blomman, had previously stated on the forum that he had never encountered this specific version of the Master Mariner Deep Sea in the market, further supporting Amanico's initial doubts about its existence.
The 'HPG' mention on the dial and the unusually short minute hand on what appears to be a diver's watch are specific details that warrant further investigation into the watch's originality and potential reassembly.

The Discussion

andrea~

Feb 1, 2023

Weird is a good way to describe it

Racing inspired elements on a diver... not what you usually see

amanico

Feb 1, 2023

Thanks for commenting, my friend.

saintseiyaikki

Feb 1, 2023

The racing dial is ok...

But what's going on with the HPG thing, and the shortened minute hand for the first diver😂

amanico

Feb 1, 2023

That's why I think it is a reassembled one.

Alfihar

Feb 1, 2023

Well done Sherlock… but…

The watch was mentioned in the new collectible book… Sentier, Le Chenit… we have a problem… Moreover… even Blomman who contribute to this superb book has written here in an old post that « he never saw one in the market » : The vintage world is full of traps… Even the greatest are fallible but work always pays off. The main problem is that with the promotion on the Collectible book... some collectors will take what is written as gospel because it comes from the Manufacture. It is true that only

amanico

Feb 1, 2023

It takes a lot of time to better know a watch, as you well know. No doubt they will publish some errata in their next publication. Errare Humanum Est. But you are right, it might be dangerous for the novices.

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LeCoultre Master Mariner Deep Sea US: Authenticity Guide

About the Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Mariner Ref. E558

Specifications

Key Points from the Discussion

Continue the conversation

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