Karsten Frässdorf: A Critical Look at the Independent Watchmaker's Business Practices

watching00000 · 2020-09-10T02:38:47Z

Explore the controversial business history of independent watchmaker Karsten Frässdorf, including multiple lawsuits and contractual disputes. A must-read for collectors considering Montres KF.

watching00000

WPS member · Independents forum

16 replies7403 views1 photos

In the world of independent watchmaking, the artisan's character and business practices are often as integral to a brand's appeal as the watches themselves. This article revisits a critical discussion initiated by watching00000, who meticulously investigated the professional history of independent watchmaker Karsten Frässdorf. The original post, now several years old, remains highly relevant for collectors considering an investment in independent horology, prompting a deeper look into the due diligence required beyond technical prowess.

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You may know Karsten Frässdorf (KF) from his most recent project "Montres KF" and the blatantly praising blog posts from MonochromeWatches.

Since especially with independent watchmakers, you largely invest / buy into the person behind the brand, I think it's worth to take a closer look at the journey Mr Frässdorf has had so far.

Mr Frässdorf undoubtably has engineering originality and skills, although many of his creations did/do not work. But his way to conduct business and is a completely different thing and shines a not very positive light on the character "Frässdorf".

I try to keep it short but literally every business he has started in the past or even regular employments, have resulted in a lawsuit. Yes, a lawsuit. In watchmaking. This is so rare, that when I started readying up on Mr Frässdorf, I doubted the first few information until I gathered multiple sources (people and also legal documents available).

Mr Frässdorf signed a contract with Marc Brogsitter to create a set of watches and received funds to setup up a complete watchmaking shop (six figures sum) and work exclusively on this set of watches to be commercially distributed later on. Mr Frässdorf also received a five figure monthly salary over the course of two years. Yet, this seemed to be not sufficient for KF and he started working on other projects which delayed the progress of the Brogsitter watches massively and resulted ultimately in KF being sued over breach of contract, when KF started to use parts constructed in the "Brogsitter workshop" or sold precious metals which were brought with Brogsitter funds and meant for gold cases. (documented in the EU lawsuit files)

Through the contacts of Mr Brogsitter, KF got in contact with a wealthy widow from Germany. She invested a seven figure in the person KF and never received one watch. This was also disputed in front of a German court, KF lost and KF had to give an affidavit of means but of course he had no assets and everything, like his house or cars or money, was owned by his wife.

Then he worked on the project "Fabrication De Montres Normandes" which resulted in another dead company due to watches that never reached the market.

Then came "Heritage Watch Manufactory" with impressive looking watches but even with another great watchmaker at his side, this company was doomed and resulted in liquidation

After these came involvements with Leroy where he was tasked to construct watch movements. His creation of a Tourbillon never worked reliably and another movement was also never brought to actual production other than a prototype. As a result he was sued by the Festina Group and lost.

Despite his obvious reputation at this point, he was also hired by ChronoSwiss to construct a new movement for them. He never delivered and their release plus production was heavily delayed due to the need to hire someone else. As a result he was sued and lost that lawsuit as well.

Despite claims by his "overly friendly" watch blog MonochromeWatches or himself, KF does not own any patents.

-->> https://www.swissreg.ch/srclient/faces/jsp/patent/sr1.jsp

I'm curious when and how the first "problems" or rather lawsuits will popup related to his newest project "Montres KF".

The user Ornatus-Mundi has summed it up perfectly "The Watchmaker Designer has probably caused more lawsuits than he has produced watches"

-->> www.watchprosite.com

You can also take a look at his "track-record" on this forum itself

-->> www.watchprosite.com ?page=wf&forumid=16&show=&qf=ft&ft=frässdorf

Based on his past, I have no interest in Montres KF anymore, despite the fact that the design and technical approach sparked my interest.

I simply won't invest into the person behind the brand. But everyone can and should judge for himself.

Key Points from the Discussion

While acknowledging that some promising watchmaking ventures may not succeed, the contributor emphasizes that a pattern of lawsuits and contractual breaches is a significant red flag for potential collectors and investors, distinguishing it from typical business challenges.
The original author clarified that their information on private lawsuits came from the heir of the late Mr. Brogsitter, who had a right to receive funds and was informed about the outcomes of other legal disputes involving Karsten Frässdorf.
The author stated they never personally met Karsten Frässdorf, canceling an appointment after discovering the documented legal issues. They also recounted a phone call where Frässdorf denied any legal disputes, contradicting available legal papers.
A user identifying as 'marc.brogsitter' attempted to contact the original author, indicating they possessed further facts and had direct experience with the situation, suggesting additional corroboration for the claims.
The original author expressed frustration with the online forum environment, noting that critical posts, even when supported by details for verification, often lead to 'trolling' rather than substantive discussion, contrasting it with offline watch collecting communities.

The Discussion

MichaelC

Sep 10, 2020

Well, I have never even heard of the guy but your disdain for him sure is clear.

I don't believe the motive of the article is to protect other members here.

watching00000

Sep 10, 2020

So what's my motivation?

Please enlighten me! I guess a "disdain" for people with such a track-record is not valid in your eyes? Only blind praise?

watching00000

Sep 10, 2020

But anyway typical for trolls...

Instead of judging the content like I suggest, you judge the "motivation" behind it. SAD.

MichaelC

Sep 10, 2020

Well, no need to judge the content if the motivation is questionable.

You have 12 posts and write an essay criticizing this guy. Correct or not, that's not what this website is about. And oh by the way, I have been "trolling" here since the inception of this website. 20 years now.

watching00000

Sep 10, 2020

That’s the definition of trolling

And 12 posts make the content less relevant? Your 20 years on the other hand should make people believe you blindly? So far you have done nothing but trying to undermine the statements by undermining the person posting them. But no problem: I will spend my next 20 years with worthless spam posts like „Great watch“ or „Congrats“ before I dare to write a post that is more than two words and is about an issue that matters to me. Also: Still no answer on why and how my motivation is questionable. Co

NickO

Sep 10, 2020

Actually, Michael has been here for 20 years

The site was originally called ThePuristS and changed to WatchProSite in 2006. Because it moved to a new platform, everyone got new joining dates. That's why all the old-timers here have a December 2006 join date, but some of us go back much longer than that. Regarding questioning your motives, may I put it to you this way? An ethical stock advisor will disclose to his client whether he owns a stock and when he bought it, prior to recommending that stock to them. Similarly, you've provided a det

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