Impressive work, Nicolas,

Jan 06, 2010,01:26 AM
 

I liked the comparison with Milspecs I, in its civilian and military version.

It is clear that both watches share a similar aesthetic, adapting the TR-900 to the MilSpec I (in production when the latter Tornek saw the light). Its design, due to Mr. Tornek, who worked at Blancpain Firm, was based on the MilSpec I, making it clear that both share the same pattern.

As you say, military specification which was the basis for the Tornek is "U.S. "Mil-W-22176 (SHIPS) / WATCH, WRIST, SUBMERSIBLE (400-FOOT), NON-MAGNETIC", using in this case the PM-147 in place of Promethium 145, shorter-lived than the latter but less radioactive.

I add some extracts of the Tornek´s military specifications ...















The usual configuration...


A FF Milspec Militar with the same configuration....





As you say, the Tornek could be considered as a MilSpec II. However, another important point to add to Tornek´s design, in my opinion, is clearly the Bulova proto, watch that was destined to be the watch of the American Army at this time.

In a U.S. Navy manual we read:

"(12) A wristwatch, pressure-resistant, non-magnetic, and will incorporate certain desirable features not present in the current watch, is in development. The watch will probably be available for service tests in 1958)."

Totall appears with certainty that the new watch that was developing was the Bulova MIL-SHIPS-W-2181 (The precursor of the Tornek-Rayville TR-900 / MIL-W-22176A).

Unfortunately, the Bulova failed the test:

Three prototypes of the submersible watch BULOVA BuShips workmanship under contract and in accordance with MIL-Ships-W-2181 were evaluated. Water resistance, readability in the darkness and several subjective tests were conducted. The tests were carried out deep to 392 feet (175 psi) pressure, and stayed for an hour. The watch face includes a moisture indicator which changes color if it .... Two of the three moisture gauges, one during the test and another several days after the tests. Did not show traces of water or moisture in the boxes. The legibility of the watch in the dark or under water was satisfactory, except the second hand, too thin to be seen ... Several physical improvements are recommended as a result of subjective evaluation .... Not recommended acceptance of the watches because they break the seal...

The similarity of the Bulova and the Tornek is surprising, although we could also say that the design is strikingly similar to the Bulova...




I daresay that the Tornek Rayville is a watch that eventually incorporating aspects of both worlds: the Bulova (model under review by the U.S. Navy) and the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms MilSpec I.

But and important question came to my mind always that I think about the Tr-900 and the Bulova.... which watch took the similarities from which... The Bulova was based in the Milspec?? Evidently, some similar aspects are easily recongnicible in the Bulova from the in production Milspec; The Tornek was based in the Milspec and in the Bulova, taking the best in both worlds??.

I think, IMO, that we can consider that the father of both watches is the Milspec I.

In any case, the Milspec and the TR-900, have really nice points that can make select one or another. I love the crown in the Milspec (I don´t understand the small crown in the TR wich made quasi impossible opperate it), I love more the second hand on the Milspecs, the superdomed plexy in the Milspec is awesome (as an UFO), but the TR-900 become in a cult watch for it´s rarity and for it´s militar soul. The Milspec is more brutal, and the TR is more elegant (wich could be different, because certanlly the TR is a militar one and the MilspecI is "more civil".

The best of all, would be have both watches and enjoy the two worlds at the same time.

A hit, a myth, a watch that must be in any diver´s collector.

In my case, I think that the pity is that probably I´ll never be able to own one... but no problem, I can admire yours time by time....

Thanks for the pics, for the great work made, for your learning to us, which is the most important thing... and thanks to all that have spent some time making the learning of all of us (Stephan, Jeff, Bill, JC, and you, my dear Nico).

Best, hermano.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us 

Emilio


More posts: Fifty FathomsMilspecTornek Rayville

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Autopsy of a Cult Watch: The Tornek Rayville.

 
 By: amanico : April 26th, 2018-18:18
When collecting the Fifty Fathoms, your way will necessarily cross the Tornek Rayville. It is unavoidable, at least in your desires, in your dreams. You begin with the easier Fifty Fathoms to get, the " No Rad ". Then you are on the hunt for a Mil Spec. I...  

Wonderful post ...

 
 By: Chris Meisenzahl : January 5th, 2010-10:12
Wonderful post, I love the look of those old watches.

It's quite an addiction, eeeh, Chris? :)

 
 By: amanico : January 5th, 2010-23:30
Thanks for your nice comment, my friend. Best, Nicolas

Wow.....

 
 By: MiniCooper : January 5th, 2010-11:22
you worked hard on this post my friend.... Much appreciated..... Cheers

I was lucky enough to see several of these Beauties, PP

 
 By: amanico : January 5th, 2010-23:34
Before deciding to get one... I was very niterested by its Story, did my homework, and gathered informations here and there, adding my personal observations on this watch. That's all! Best, my friend. Nicolas

One more impressive post here !!!

 
 By: tripon : January 5th, 2010-13:52
Hard work for those wonderful watches THANKS! Pascal

Be very careful, Pascal,

 
 By: amanico : January 5th, 2010-23:36
These Vintage FFs are very attractive! It is very difficult to not fall under their charm. Best, Nicolas

LOL! ...and you know that more than anyone :-)

 
 By: tripon : January 6th, 2010-09:10
That's fine, it's still a pleasure to see it in pictures and to read your reports. Maybe later this year I'll be able to post about a FF as well Best, Pascal

Like always Nicolas, huge congratulations for this...

 
 By: claude.f : January 5th, 2010-16:22
TOP article TOP pictures TOP review !!! Perfection on the higest level !!! best regards Claude

Thank you for your TOP comments, Claude! :)))

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-06:55
Very pleased than a fan like you appreciated it! Nothing new to share??? Best, Nicolas

I am working hard on the first part of my personal FF report. :-)

 
 By: claude.f : January 6th, 2010-14:21
It will contain a surprise for you, I will post it in the upcoming days. If all turns well I can finish it tonight so I only need to take some pictures tomorrow and can post it here afterwards! ;-) best regards Claude

Now, I'm getting very curious, Claude...

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-15:40
What can it be??? Come on! Best, Nicolas

The Tornek Rayville...

 
 By: dxboon : January 5th, 2010-23:27
...is certainly a strong and attractive watch. Your article does a great job of pointing out the differences, and the similarities between it and the Milspec. I do think the Milspec may present more elegantly overall, due to the smaller/thinner indices, f... 

My problem is that I love them all, Daos.

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-07:44
The TR 900, of course, for the Story behind, for its maxi dial, to use a Rolex Terminology, and for the bezel, thicker. The Milspec, for its elegance, and because it was the first. It is funny that you say that, because I know some passionate collectors w... 

Well, we know I'll NEVER be a good girl!

 
 By: dxboon : January 7th, 2010-00:31
After all, mother says that only bad girls have tattoos. I must be a lost cause if that's the case. I am, however, very intrigued by your message. What could it be? Another FF? Something different? Another Polaris? IWC 812? I would DIE if you found a clea... 

Well, another FF, and a special one.

 
 By: amanico : January 7th, 2010-00:38
But I already posted it, just before this post about the TR 900. But, I also got something else, yesterday... Something I was running after for a long time... By the way, there are, from time to time, some Ref 812 spotting here and there, but they are rea... 

What a thorough review and informative

 
 By: gazoz : January 6th, 2010-01:00
i dont even want to ask how and where you get or dig up all the old information or ads my compliments to you as alot of time and effort must go there then also you have to have the sickness which nicolas you certainly have but seriously i like the TR and ... 

Well, Garry, others than me made an awesome job on this topic

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-08:10
And I don't want to " steal " their Job... I specially think about Billy Schorr, who dedicated a lot of his time on the TR 900, to not only collect all the available informations, but also the watches, and who made a lot of searches. When doing my own hom... 

Impressive work, Nicolas,

 
 By: E.J. : January 6th, 2010-01:26
I liked the comparison with Milspecs I, in its civilian and military version. It is clear that both watches share a similar aesthetic, adapting the TR-900 to the MilSpec I (in production when the latter Tornek saw the light). Its design, due to Mr. Tornek...  

You raise an interesting question Emilio

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-07:37
Who inspired who? This is only my guess, because I don't have any documented evidence to demonstrate my point of view, BUT: The Milspec is a variation of an earlier FF: The FF was released since 1953. The Bulova proto, AFAIK, was released at the end of th... 

Interesting...

 
 By: E.J. : January 6th, 2010-10:30
I´m thinking about it for a long time. Your theory is simply credible. If we reach the dates, we can see that the first FF were made in the earliest ´50 (1953 to be more precise). Between 1953 and 1960 the Ff knew more variations, and in those variations ... 

I have some doubts, Emilio

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-22:35
How can we be sure that the Milspec was released in 1960 and not a bit before, like 1958 or 59...? Was the Milpspec the first and the only one to use the moisture indicator? Certainly not the only one, but the first? NB: I don't know who to credit nor to ...  

I have to correct one point in my last post...

 
 By: E.J. : January 7th, 2010-14:23
when I said: The moisture indicator didn´t appear in any Ff since 1960, with the Milspec, like in the Bulova (one year before, aprox). Here are some proofs... *LIP Blancpain, 1954-1956, 34mm, AS 1361. LIP Blancpain, 1954-1956, militar model of the CIEPM, ...  

Thanks for the legitim reminder, Emilio

 
 By: amanico : January 7th, 2010-20:52
Of course the CIEPM from the mid fifties is a, if not THE most famous example of the pre existence of moisture indicators on Blancpain watches. Agree on the man who take the plane and the watch... Best, Hermano. Nicolas

I want to obey in the dust :-)

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : January 6th, 2010-03:50
Hello my friend That is probably the best, the most impressive post I have seen on the forum. Great work. Especially the Autopsy aka the inside (the calibre mhhhmm yummie), and the details. WUNDERFUL indeed So far I dont know anything (OK, a little) about... 

Excellent post Nicolas

 
 By: terenceho : January 6th, 2010-05:29
Cannot stop reading your post .....

Thank you a lot, Terence.

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-08:12
These words, coming from you, are much appreciated, my friend. Best, Nicolas

There wasn't any Mr Rayville, Hans

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-06:53
According to Jeff Kingston, in his superb article ( Lettres du Brassus Nr 3 ), " Rayville was a name used by J.J FIECHTER for some of the Blancpain production." Well, I own this one for almost one year, now, but I wanted to take my time to make a review o... 

Thankyou my friend..

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : January 6th, 2010-07:43
... you have already made me search the www (intensively in my lunchbreak that is ) Lets see if I one day have a FF Best Hans

You are probably right..

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : January 6th, 2010-11:12
.. I found a few, but all sold :-( But I found a lot of interesting articles I will probably have to start with a plain FF or a 'plain' mil.... Any idear where to start looking..? BR Hans

Send me a PM, Hans.

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-22:01

Thank you Nicolas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 By: fifty fathoms : January 6th, 2010-10:47
thank you, Nicolas what a great opening for 2010. This is a very good abstract about the for me most wanted vintage diver watch. I think it is easier to get a vintage bond rolex or a panerai than the Tornek Rayville. I will make a colour print of this rep... 

Hi Stephan,

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-22:17
As for the bezel, it is not unidirectional, and yes, you have to press on it to turn it. You have a point when you say that it is rarer than a Vintage Bond Rolex. As for the Vintage Pannies, if you take them all, yes the TR 900 is rarer. Now, if you want ... 

Very enjoyable thanks!!

 
 By: shepcs : January 6th, 2010-20:44
Fun read, great watches!

Thanks to you!

 
 By: amanico : January 6th, 2010-22:03
It was funny to see you posting your 2 TR 900 quite at the same moment! Best, Nicolas

Very interesting thoughts and observations about ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : January 7th, 2010-07:12
some really cool vintage pieces. Congrats! Lucky me, I can enjoy them without any jealousy. Don´t know why, but sometimes it is good to "feel save" Oliver

Thanks, Oliver.

 
 By: amanico : January 7th, 2010-13:42
Sure? No " Sister "for your lovely modern FF? Tsssssss! Best, 666

Well, I am strong enough ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : January 8th, 2010-13:33
to resist the "devils advocat" ... at the moment Oliver

Will be ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : January 8th, 2010-14:04
prepared

Another killing post !

 
 By: bimbeano : January 7th, 2010-08:23
Thanks Nicolas, this post was most pleasant to read . Not that i'm able to follow anymore ... ... if i ever think of buying an FF i will NOT ask you which one, because i fear i could end up with each model ... Yours truly, Ze bim

Yep, Filip

 
 By: amanico : January 7th, 2010-13:40
The embarss of the choice, indeed. No need to go on such a scarce piece, a simple early FF will also bring you a lot of pleasure. And even in the Milspec family, there are so many to fall in love with! One day, maybe... Best, my friend. Nicolas

You outdid yourself with this post.

 
 By: BDLJ : January 7th, 2010-20:56
Absolutely wonderful post. I am glad I have no desire for any of these, or else this post would have pushed me over the edge. Great job (again!), Nico.

I'm far from being a pioneer in reviewing the TR 900, Ben.

 
 By: amanico : January 7th, 2010-21:28
But it was really interesting to gather all these informations, and to make this " Autopsy "...of a still living watch! Thanks for the kind comments, my friend. Nicolas

That may be the case,

 
 By: BDLJ : January 7th, 2010-22:24
but having read many TR900 reviews, I still believe yours stands out. Great fun to read. (Has the strange watchband arrived yet?)

Much appreciated, Ben...

 
 By: amanico : January 7th, 2010-22:26
No, it didn't arrive, yet... But you know, in France, right now, nothing works, because of the ..snow. Best, Nicolas

Great job !

 
 By: DrStrong : January 8th, 2010-01:18
amazing review of a mythical timepiece ! thanks for the great work and beautiful pictures my friend ! Cheers Jeff

Thanks for the nice words, Jeff! [nt]

 
 By: amanico : January 8th, 2010-01:44
No message body

so impressive

 
 By: Ryan5446 : January 9th, 2010-00:28
thanks for the great write up. It is one thing to collect vintage watches, but it is another thing to get the complete story behind it. You ve done a great thing on both !! Brgds, Steven

You know that very well, Steven

 
 By: amanico : January 9th, 2010-00:37
The story is a nice addition to the watch... Not easy to find, but that's all the interest! Thanks for your nice words, my friend. Best, Nicolas

A few additional points...

 
 By: camfam : January 14th, 2010-13:35
Outstanding review! Perhaps the best out there. Some reviews of this watch have been marred by authors who own a TR-900 but have little or no hands-on knowledge of Blancpains. Your review brings a depth of knowledge that is outstanding. A couple points. F... 

Camfam, your input is really precious.

 
 By: amanico : January 14th, 2010-13:56
Of course, I know your work on this topic, but I didn't remember where I " saved " this pic of the Bulova. Thanks a lot for the precious informations and the impressive work you made on these watches. There is, again, a lot to say, and to dig about the TR...  

I believe the AM stands for...

 
 By: camfam : January 14th, 2010-19:56
I think that the "AM" prefix indicates those few TR-900 cases that were made up into the "civilian version" of the TR-900 watch. My theory is that they were left over cases rather than a prototype, but this is a guess. These civilian TR-900s seem much mor... 

Thanks again, Camfam.

 
 By: amanico : January 14th, 2010-20:24
Will open quite soon another topic about these AM FFs. I don't know, Camfam, I thought " American Military ", too, but a guy in the US, who has a certain knowledge in Military Watches, was laughting at this theory, and told me the true meaning of " NFW ".... 

Thank you for indepth information Camfam :-)

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : January 15th, 2010-06:24
..Really interesting to learn so much on these great watches Best Hans

Which one? [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 27th, 2018-06:45

My English is too bad, not the comment, the thread is too indecent, too unbearable, I droll

 
 By: ninolitaliano : April 27th, 2018-08:15
and if I had written : this comment is exhaustive, there would not have been a syllabic palindrome

Nicolas what a superb write-up

 
 By: 198042 : May 22nd, 2018-10:36
I missed it 8 years ago. Thanks to whoever brought it up again and to you for writing it. Cheers from Zurich Richard